Follow
Share
Read More
This discussion has been closed for comment. Start a New Discussion.
Find Care & Housing
1 2 3 4 5
This morning I was wondering how things were going, so thanks for the update! You are keeping your boundaries so well, and I'm glad your brother and you presented a united front as you showed your mother facilities.

I'm kind of surprised she's lasted a week at the motel. Are you?
(2)
Report

Erz, thanks for the update!

I wonder if there is another "friend" in the other city who is telling her that she doesn't need help?
(1)
Report

Hi, Everyone! Hope you all are doing well!

Just thought I'd pop in for an update. Some of it decent, some of it just, well, not surprising, I don't think.

This past week, mom wasn't speaking to me. She had discharged herself unsafely from SNF, and moved herself into a motel. I was helping my brother identify a few places to examine - places that had a combination of independent and assisted living, as we felt the more independent the option appeared, the more apt my mother might be to consider.

She agreed to spend the day with my brother and I on Saturday to do some tours and visits. Of the three places we examined, all seemed to be pretty great - slight differences, but, all with the ability to meet the immediate need of keeping her safe and giving her some access to services and options. And, best part was ... she actually seemed to be warming to the idea. By the end of the day, she seemed keen on one of the places we visited - a place that had a room available that she could move into as early as this week.

I sent her a follow up text on Sunday, just so say I hope she was feeling okay after our busy day the day before, and I looked forward to supporting with next steps - whether that meant looking at more places, or making a decision.

Haven't heard a peep back since then. Her BFF, who secretly messages me with updates on things, texted me yesterday that in conversing with my mother, she has talked herself out of all of those options - "she doesn't need any help!" - and is apparently going to contact the City where she wants to live to find out what places she can rent a senior apartment. Meaning, an apartment that will offer no assistance, other than perhaps discounted rent and more ADA compliant access.

Now, to be fair, she hasn't communicated this clearly to me. And trying to get clear information out of my brother is quite the exercise in futility.

So, at this point, I'm not sure what else to do. I'm just not inclined to spend more of my time and energy trying to help find a solution for her, if she is just going to categorically reject anything I suggest.

So, that's where it sits. As far as I know, she reserved another week at the motel, and hasn't said anything to me since Saturday.

At least, I guess, I am keeping my boundary! She hasn't made any suggestion or attempt to come to my house. So ... I'm not too worried about that at this point. More just unsure what I can do, if anything, other than start to think about packing up her items and furniture at my house to move "sometime" after she makes a decision.

Here's hoping that, when I get to be her age, I am nowhere near as stubborn or in denial of my limitations!
(3)
Report

Erz, glad that your mom's friends can see what's going on; I hope you find the affirmation of your "good daughter" status reassuring.

I like to say that one of the functions of this forum is to tell folks that no, you shouldn't have to give up your life for your parents.

So many "kids" think that they are deficient in some way that they can't give up their jobs or marriages to tend mom or dad who made no plans, or who can't see that they need more care than one human can give. Or that, Heaven forefend, they might have to PAY for care.

For those of us with "normal" parents (whatever THAT means), there is never any thought that a huge sacrifice needs to be made. Inconveniences, more work than usual yes, but not to the point of breakdown, job loss or abuse. That's just not the way life should be.
(3)
Report

Thank you, for all the wisdom, encouragement, advice, "tough love" when I need it, and hugs! I feel so blessed to have stumbled upon this forum, and all of you.

Not much of an update. The silence is so deafening; I haven't heard from my mother since the weekend, when she last lambasted me, and also haven't heard from my brother in several days. Is it odd to say that I am ... enjoying the break from it all?

My mother has three close friends; two of them so far have messaged me and said how sorry they feel for me to be in this position, and how my mother has "planted her feet in cement". One even suggested she should be evaluated for dementia (they've both been speaking to her, it seems). Yesterday, I got a lovely card even from one of them, sending me love and telling me what an incredible daughter I have been to her, and am being to her by advocating so hard for her transition to a different living arrangement.

I'm feeling good about the boundary. Wow, it's amazing to be 52, turning 53 in just a few months, and thinking about how long it took me to learn how to draw a simple line in the "sand".

I hope you all are having a fabulous week. ♥️
(7)
Report

Erz, I've been unable to post for a while, but I wanted to add that I think when your brother texted "cat's in the cradle" he simply meant that your mother had landed. Maybe ask what he meant?

I hope you get some resolution soon. ((((Hugs)))))
(3)
Report

Sendhelp ... that's amazing, as while I actually know the song, I didn't make that connection prior to you mentioning.

Eerie. And now I wonder if it was intentional on my brother's part.

It has proven a great buffer against any inkling of guilt I find myself fighting off here and there - that my brother isn't letting her come stay with him, either.

CTTN55 - thank you for that kind comment. Historically, I have been terrible about boundaries, particularly as it relates to my mother. So - I'm breaking ground on some new territory through this experience, and being frank, it feels pretty good.

It does not negate my interest in being supportive, helpful, resourceful, or an advocate overall - it just draws a clear line between that and what was the past pattern, which was allowing her to control me through manipulation and bullying.

I'm 52 years old. I guess I'm proof that you really can teach an old dog new tricks, right?
(5)
Report

ERZoolie,

Receive your "blessing in disguise".
Interesting reference to the song: "The Cat's in the cradle" by your brother.

What does the phrase Cat's in the Cradle mean?
If you hear someone today use the expression “cat's in the cradle,” they're likely describing a relationship in which one person doesn't make enough time for the other, whether that's a romantic relationship, friendship, or parental relationship.

He, your brother, took off work, he obviously does not have time for Mom.

The song is about a parent who did not have time for his son, and the son became just like him, did not have time for his parent in his older years.

How can the caregivers here support you?

Will it help at all to know a neighbor did go thru this over a period of about a year: getting her way, going to a motel after discharge (avoiding the R.N. sent to administer antibiotics I.V.); continuing driving (On the wrong side of the road), threatening to buy a car if family did not return her car keys, and conning others to take responsibility for her large dogs. After discharge from the hospital, it was only a week before "they" caught up with her and she was admitted to an Assisted Living facility/board & care to contain her behaviors-behaviors that were symptoms of schizophrenia.

"They" consisted of her family-3 adult children, concerned neighbors, the manager who was evicting her 1) non-payment of rent; 2) keeping large dogs which were not allowed; 3) her doctors and emergency personnel. It took a year, but after her visit to the hotel, it only took another week to get her help.

The family, after she moved out, threw all her stuff into the dumpster without going through it because they just did not have the time. I felt so bad, but understand their actions today.

That time was fraught with emotions for this out of control neighbor. Looking back, anything we did to try to help her was useless and dangerous for her and the community.

Support! Take a few deep breaths, keep your boundaries up. Stay with us.
(3)
Report

" They in fact made the medical determination yesterday that they could not prevent her from driving. I did not hear from anyone the entire day - luckily, I had a full day of work meetings to distract me. In the late afternoon, my brother texted me and just said "the cat's in the cradle". He apparently took the afternoon off of work and went to help her - charged her car, got her groceries, helped her check into the motel, etc.

My brother said she could walk "somewhat" with a walker. How can she drive? I have no idea.

So, that's where it sits now. She's in a motel, alone, not speaking to me."

So now your brother will be in charge of her. GREAT job in maintaining your boundaries!
(4)
Report

To answer your questions, I drove the car there yesterday, and gave the Director of Nursing the car key. They in fact made the medical determination yesterday that they could not prevent her from driving. I did not hear from anyone the entire day - luckily, I had a full day of work meetings to distract me. In the late afternoon, my brother texted me and just said "the cat's in the cradle". He apparently took the afternoon off of work and went to help her - charged her car, got her groceries, helped her check into the motel, etc.

My brother said she could walk "somewhat" with a walker. How can she drive? I have no idea.

So, that's where it sits now. She's in a motel, alone, not speaking to me. I'm probably already going to Hell, for other things, so I'll just go ahead and admit that being cut out of the conversation feels a bit like a blessing in disguise.

I think I might turn off my phone for the rest of the week. With the exception of calling to get some counseling for myself set up, as I think its probably wise for me to get some professional help processing all of the emotions I'm having in a healthier way.
(10)
Report

Erzoolie, we are all rooting for you and hoping that your mom lands softly.

Let us know how this goes.
(1)
Report

When do you think you will find out what your mother ended up doing today? Maria the DP isn't going to call you, right? When your mother runs into her first obstacle (no pun intended), will she call you or your brother? I guess that depends if she actually makes it to Fullerton?
(2)
Report

If the car is still there it's not too late to have a friend put a jack under it and steal one of the wheels. Too bad it's not so easy to remove the battery when you don't have the keys to pop the hood.
(1)
Report

EZ, take comfort in the fact that you did everything you could.

My bet is that IF your mother can get into the car, she won't make it out of the parking lot on her own.

Is your brother going to show up for discharge?
(1)
Report

Believe me, I didn't enjoy handing those keys over - to anyone. That said, they are the only people in the active "equation" who have the actual authority (legally, as it was explained to me) to deprive her the right to drive. If they hand those keys to her today, they have determined they are able to do so. As I understand, she will have to sign a form that removes them from all liability. So, as much as I don't envy that position, it is the best solution I could concoct.

Why any of the doctors who have treated her over the last several months - to include the neurologist whom I watched wave his finger in her face, telling her she should not drive again - didn't take steps to remove her driver's privilege is also equally baffling to me.

notgoodenough - thank you for those kind words. Intellectually, I know that, but emotionally, I admit to the turmoil and struggle in my heart.

<3
(4)
Report

Very sad for the Nursing Home that will be liable if mom kills anyone trying to drive. I wonder what their legal department will say about that?

Good luck today!
(1)
Report

Erzoolie, please remember through all of this: you did the best that you could; you did all that you could. What happens from here is NOT YOUR FAULT. You can't save someone from themselves if they refuse to grab the life preservers you throw to them.
(2)
Report

"I gave her car keys to the Director of Nursing at the SNF. They are going to be discharging her today, as my mother has refused all of the other options presented to her for respite care. My mother is going to have to sign off that she is being discharged unsafely, against doctor's orders. They will return all of her property to her, and the rest is up to her."

This is the best that you can do, and I like that you consulted an elder attorney.

Where is the car? If it's at the SNF, how did it get there?
(3)
Report

Thank you, All, so much!

Yesterday, I talked to the local police department about my mother and her car. I explained the situation - and they basically explained to me that, as long as (a) she is legally licensed to drive, and (b) the car belongs to her, then there is nothing they can do. They recommended I report her to the DMV, which I already did months ago.

I talked to my elder law attorney again, too. And we came up with a plan. It doesn't sit well with me, but, it seems the best I could do, given all variables.

I gave her car keys to the Director of Nursing at the SNF. They are going to be discharging her today, as my mother has refused all of the other options presented to her for respite care. My mother is going to have to sign off that she is being discharged unsafely, against doctor's orders. They will return all of her property to her, and the rest is up to her.

Thank you for the kindness and compassion. It is going to be a difficult week, even as much as I know she is only a victim of her own stubbornness, it still weighs on my heart that she is being so foolish and self-destructive. It won't change my boundary on not allowing her to come here, but ... it is just, well, sad.
(7)
Report

Erzoolie, (((hugs)))...will be thinking about you during what I imagine is going to be a stressful day, regardless of how it turns out.
(2)
Report

"I am going to focus on taking deep breaths, working with my brother to identify/examine suitable assisted living facilities, accept that I cannot control the situation altogether, and put some bubbly on ice so that I can celebrate once she is squared away somewhere safe for the long term. It's going to take several weeks, and Lord knows she isn't going to make it any easier, but - some things in life you just have to go through, you cannot go around."

Just make sure that the "several weeks" does NOT include her coming back to your home. Don't trust Maria the DP if she says she will get you help. If brother accepts that kind of promise, that's on him.

Let us know what happens today. Will your mother Uber to the Fullerton motel, or will she drive her own car there? We should take bets!
(4)
Report

To answer your question, "Who's been making the car and insurance payments while your mother has been in the rehab/NH?" - I assume the payments are auto-deducted from her bank account.

"How would your mother even be able to drive the car if she's wheelchair bound? Or get in and out of it on her own?" - she is at this point able to get up and out of her wheelchair, and walk a wee bit with a walker. The leg that has caused this whole "chapter", however, is her right leg - so even in the best scenario, her gas/brake pedal leg is the one with the impediment. So, how can she drive? In my opinion, I don't think she can. She, of course, has a vastly different view.

I am going to focus on taking deep breaths, working with my brother to identify/examine suitable assisted living facilities, accept that I cannot control the situation altogether, and put some bubbly on ice so that I can celebrate once she is squared away somewhere safe for the long term. It's going to take several weeks, and Lord knows she isn't going to make it any easier, but - some things in life you just have to go through, you cannot go around. The only way this is ever going to happen is if I exert my competence to make sure it does. And selfishly, it will be better for me in the long run, mind/heart-wise, so ... it's worth the short-term effort in order to reach that destination, I believe.

To be clear, I will not be handing any keys to my mother - car or otherwise.

I am going to continue enforcing my boundaries and maintaining my sanity, to include 60-75 minutes every day on my Peloton to process the stress of it all. As an added benefit, I'm getting in great shape!

I hope everyone is having a pleasant Sunday ... <3
(5)
Report

You say your mom spends about $1,000 a month on a car between her car payment and insurance.
Who's been making the car and insurance payments while your mother has been in the rehab/NH?
Don't make the payments and the dealership will repossess the car.
How would your mother even be able to drive the car if she's wheelchair bound? Or get in and out of it on her own?
Tell your brother not to take the car to her and not to help her in any way. You don't either.
(1)
Report

You can always call the PD’s emergency number, and see if they have any additional ideas for you.

In the meantime, I agree. Hide the keys. Give them to someone who is stronger emotionally than you right now. Anything but handing them over to your Mom.
(1)
Report

Here's an article from Aging Care:

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.agingcare.com/articles/amp/112307
(1)
Report

I would drive mom's car to the Fullerton Police Department Impound lot and leave the keys with them.

Call the police and ask how to arrange this.

If that's not possible, park the car on the street somewhere. Lock and drop the keys in the mail to the Fullerton PD or sherrif's department.

Tell mom you lost both the car and the keys.
(3)
Report

What your mother did was not your fault in any way shape or form. Do not feel guilty for something you didn't cause. Your mother sounds like a bully and always gets her way. But you don't have to continue the pattern with her and your brother who is doing moms bidding. All you have to do is with hold the keys. That's the best you can do to stop her from a legal standpoint. After May 27th if car has been towed to mom or brother gets replacement keys and takes care to mom you can report it to the poluce since you know where she will be living. If they catch her driving they will impound the car. If they don't then you did your best and tried. That's all anyone can do.

You are a good person. And good people often are casualties of selfish people like your mother who don't give a damn about anyone but themselves and what they want. And as a good person you suffer feeling guilty about things you didn't do or cause.
(3)
Report

"the 5th time your mother kills someone while she's driving, you'll think OP..."hmmmmmm, maybe i should stop giving her the car keys?"

That implies, if I understand correctly ... responsibility for the accident that led to the death of her friend is mine to share, as I didn't intervene/take her keys before it originally happened?

Sorry if I am angering or triggering anyone. I appreciate everyone's honesty, even when it is difficult for me to read.
(1)
Report

the 5th time your mother kills someone while she's driving, you'll think OP..."hmmmmmm, maybe i should stop giving her the car keys?" ?

i repeat:
how many manslaughters until you decide OP, it's better to "lose" the keys?
(1)
Report

Erzoolie, charge you with autotheft?

I assume the car is right there, yes? All hers. No "unlawful taking with the intention permanently to deprive" her of her property about it.

I suppose she can have you charged with autokeytheft. Let her try it. I doubt if the judge will be terribly hard on you.

Meanwhile, if she's able to order and take delivery of replacement keys good luck to her - all you can do then is keep reporting.
(3)
Report

1 2 3 4 5
This discussion has been closed for comment. Start a New Discussion.
Start a Discussion
Subscribe to
Our Newsletter