Caregiving for a narcissistic mother. Do we do it out of love or out of years of guilt and programming?

Piper,
Have you tired meditation. Seriously! Just try to for 10 to 15 minutes. I do mind at night with music "Enigma" and I burn a white candle. The music is very soothing and the candle is the only light I use. White candles mean different things, but it is very good at cleaning out negative energy. Whether you believe that or not doesn't matter! What does matter is you being able to regenerate yourself emotionally and physically. Calming yourself and your stress down. Narcs are very good at draining people; therefore, we have to get good at refilling ourselves! I love Chris' idea about a day at the spa day. I lost a huge amount of weight caring for my own mother & I had terrible sores all over my body from my autoimmune disorder. As we care for them they suck the life out of us & we throw ourselves on the back burner. You really have to take better care of yourself. I know easier said than done. I think you should really try not to be left alone with your mom if you can help it. Great job for keeping to your boundaries! Hang in there you'll get through this! Hugs!!


Chris,
I have come a very long way & I am so proud of myself!

I am very sorry to hear that BIL & SIL took advantage of your mom. I hope some legal consequences can be done. If not, they will get what's coming to them--we always do-Good or bad!

The elderly seem to be targets for family, so call friends, and professionals. The sad part is most of them don't even know that they are being victimized. My brother victimized my mother & she really thought she was helping him, but really who needs two pairs of 300.00 dollar shoes...no one who doesn't work! It really is sad...but it happens everyday unfortunately!

My neighbor across the street had his grandmother buy him that house and 2 trucks and a jeep. When one truck broke down she bought him another truck and when he wrecked it she bought him a jeep. My neighbor's grandma tried to manipulate me into "watching over him." Of course, I told her that I had enough on my plate to worry about, but of course, she wouldn't hear of it! My neighbor is 23 to 25 yrs old and does work, so there is no reason for his grandma to buy him new cars, pay the mortgage or anything else he desires. I am sure her heart is in the right place, but it seems he is taking advantage of her! Like I said, it happens all the time!! It's just sad! You make sure you take care of yourself as well! Hugs!


You both will be in my prayers! 💚💜💙

Shell, you are doing really well! It’s so good to read about your progress and the forward plans you are making. It all sounds so much healthier than where you were a few months ago. I am very pleased for you.
Piper, thanks for your kindness. DH and I have had a quiet weekend and we are both feeling a lot better than we were a week ago. This week will be tough as the funeral is on Wednesday, but we are OK I think. I’m so sorry your mother got to you again. Good idea to not put yourself in a position where you are alone with her, although not sure how manageable this is on a day to day basis? I had to do the same with my stepmother when we got to a stage where the abuse could be turned on and off depending on whether she could get me alone. I have now cut all contact with her though. I do know what you mean about being concerned about your appearance. When my NM was at the peak of her powers here, and I was stuck in the house for so much of the time, I realised I’d neglected my own well-being when I was wearing really old clothes with holes in them and a raggy old pair of slippers. My hair seemed to be coming out in clumps too. In contrast, NM was smartly dressed all of the time. I’m not a vain person but it’s important to look after yourself, and somewhere along the way this aspect of self care had been swallowed up by my NM ‘s demands on me. In the run up to the wedding, can you schedule in some time to take care of yourself? A haircut, spa/relaxation day, facial, manicure etc? It doesn’t matter whether you feel you need them, but it will make you focus some time on yourself and make you feel more confident about your appearance.

I didn't realize how long I've been away from here until I looked at the dates. I hope everyone is doing okay. Chris I'm sorry your BIL and SIL are so vile. As Lea pointed out none of what they are, or what they did is your fault or your DH's fault. I hope they can be penalized for helping themselves to assets they had no business taking.

Things here have been the same. So... yeah I'm still trying to figure out a way to survive and take care of myself while dealing with this ongoing situation with my mom. DH and I took her out to lunch on Friday, then afterwards we went over her place and continued to visit. After being with her for close to four hours I expected that would be sufficient, but when my DH left briefly to go get something at our place that she needed she started asking me to come back later and help her put her candles around. She doesn't need help with that she just wanted me to come back. Actually she didn't "ask" - she gave me a command- I need you to come over and help me with these when it gets darker (these are battery candles) to which I said- "I'm not coming back over tonight". I said it calmly, but she went instant psycho and in that TONE she glared at me "I'll do it myself!!" My heart rate went sky high instantly. I didn't say anything and she was still pouting when DH came back in, somehow his presence made her calm down, and she didn't ask me to come over to help with candles anymore. I was pretty much ready to get out of there at that point and we did leave about 15 mins later but she STILL tried to rope me in again by asking if I would come down and watch a show with her. I said no I would be in bed by then which was the truth but what the hell?!

One I vowed I will NOT be alone with her unless it is some kind of emergency. But 2- I can not deal with this needy demanding behavior. I didn't call or see her yesterday. Who knows what will happen today. I'm taking our dogs for a rabies shot at the pet clinic so I won't be around until later, but I'm thinking I will skip today too.

I'm just not getting any better at this. I'm feeling a bit worried that when my son and the others come for the wedding next month it's going to show on me. I've lost a lot of my hair, and some weight, I just think I look bad and I don't want my son seeing me like this. It's not out of vanity, I just don't want to look like how I feel you know?

Well, I just wanted to touch base. In the last two weeks my SO & I have been cleaning out the attic. It was filled to the max. We already filled one 20 yr dumpster and we need a 10 yr to finish. I have to say it has been very therapeutic for me. Throwing out all her precious things, which is old clothes that have been ruined, book, old sewing patterns that are also ruined, plus, her old broken dolls that my NM was going to fix but didn't. Don't worry most of everything in the attic has been ruined. I guess that was her place to hoard her things. Cleaning out the attic is like cleaning out my past!

Once the attic is done then it is time to do the dinning room clean & paint. I am going to take my own advice and paint my NM'S old room. I feel like I am putting my old past to rest, while I build a new future.

I am doing so much better. Thank you for all your support. I couldn't have gotten through it all without all of your helped. Wishing all of you love, peace, joy, and happiness. You all deserve these things and more. 💖💙❤

Hugs!!!
Shell

Chris: Okay; good; I am sorry that jewelry went missing, too.

Thank you! I feel the same way about being an advocate for the elderly. I believe my mom's generation wouldn't want to speak up about it - I can hear her now saying 'Don't cause a scene.' No scene was created, though - not by me. They're the "Silent Generation."

Llama, my DH has forwarded the bank statement to my MIL’s solicitor so she can ask BIL to account for the missing money (along with missing jewellery too).

You did a good thing helping that elderly lady. I sometimes wonder how much of this stuff goes on that is hidden from us, either because it isn’t seen by anyone else or because the elderly victim doesn’t want to speak out about it.

Chris: Oh, my! That's fraud! Even if was your incorrigible SIL and BIL! Is there a way to report these criminally minded relatives to your MIL's financial institution, even though she has passed? I get being angry. I will be an advocate for the elderly. Once when I took my mother to her retinologist, I witnessed a nurse speaking in an acrimonious tone to an elderly patient. When I got back to my mother's house, I called back to the practice and spoke to the nurse's supervisor and told her what I had witnessed and mind you - it was a perfect stranger to me, but if I could help that elderly lady, I would and DID speak up.

Llama, my DH discovered yesterday that BIL and SIL had been using my MIL’s bank card several times while she was in hospital and have helped themselves to £700 from various cash point machines in their local town. It’s all itemised in MIL’s closing bank statement. Every day there is a new, horrible revelation. It is exhausting and sickening dealing with all this. How do we prevent vulnerable elderly people being exploited in this way? I’d like to warn others of what can happen, but who expects this from their own family members: professional people who don’t even need the money?

Jodi and Lea: Big virtual hugs to you both for the h#ll you've been through.💖

Chris: Oh, my! Your poor mother in law! I am so sorry that she was forced to live on scraps by abusive people not caring for her. They are the lowest of the low.

Stilldealing, your own health should be your number one priority. If you need to reduce visits or go no contact, you really shouldn't bother about being judged by siblings. If they're abusive too, cut them out as well and instead spend time with people who respect, value and care for you. I've had enough of abusive people. Why should we have to interact with people who seem to take pleasure in being horrible to others?

Chris-I have tried journaling, writing out affirmations, and so forth. When I read the journal later, I am astounded at the shear extent of the senseless abuse perpetrated by mother. So not a good place for me to go. I think because mother's final illness has required more interaction with her on my part (she refused to make any sensible plans for her elder years or the fact she would eventually die from her cancer diagnosis, since her modus operandi always was to never be responsible for herself or her own decisions), the resulting medical crises, the work to get her moved into a SNF facility with her obstructing every move, has exacerbated my own mental distress (PTSD) caused by her personality disorders. What worked for me for many years was periods of very low contact, and 'gray rocking' during periods of contact (family holiday events, weddings, funerals, etc). Unfortunately, she now thinks her condition entitles her to obligatory visits, which she deliberately makes as miserable as possible. I now anticipate going no contact until her bitter end, out of necessity for my own well being and just good common sense about avoiding poisonous, vicious things. I used to worry about being shunned by my siblings for 'no contact' while 'poor mother is dying', but hey, they are entitled to conduct themselves as they wish, and I am entitled to conduct myself as I see best. Anyway, thanks everybody for the sounding board here. It helps to get this stuff out.

Chris, the real truth is coming out now, in all its ugly detail, and your BIL and SIL have been abusive towards your MIL, that much is clear. While you feel badly about this, and who wouldn't, this is not your fault, and nothing you could have known about or even changed. Your MIL was fearful of these 2 people and kept their behavior a secret, which is very sad indeed. There is a lot of elder abuse going on in the world, behind closed doors, by 'loving family members' who pretend they're great caregivers and doing 'so much' for their mothers, when in reality, they're neglecting them. I'm so sorry your dear MIL went thru such a thing with her own SON, and that you are only now hearing the sordid details. Their behavior NOW is starting to make sense, though, isn't it? Pretending they were so 'wonderful' to your MIL and want to take full credit for her care and management by speaking at her funeral.............with any luck at all, they WILL get FULL CREDIT for all they've done! The truth will come out, in all its gory detail, and they'll be known all over town for the monsters they truly are. THAT would be the best thing that could happen to them!

Jodi, my DH says similar things to me about how I am a different person when dealing with my NM. Which makes sense when you stop to think about it. How are we SUPPOSED to be when dealing with fanged serpents? Nice and happy and bubbly? Or guarded and protected and trying to survive the battle? The key is this: NOBODY wins when dealing with a narc. You lose. He loses. Everybody comes out of the battle with scars. You can try to come up with a battle plan, and at best, the scars will be minimal. But there will still be scars b/c each meeting is a battle. We do the best we can during these battles, and short of going no contact, what is the 'solution'? What is your DHs suggestion for a solution? I find it annoying and offensive when my DH makes those remarks b/c they serve no useful purpose. I KNOW I'm a different person around NM, and I also know I'm trying my best to function within my role as the NMs daughter. I am also trying to function as his wife and all the rest of it but something winds up falling short because there's a NARC involved. It's like saying you're going to visit a den of poisonous snakes and expecting to come home smiling and happy. WHY? The snake den will have you on guard and worried you'll get bitten. You'll have your armor up the whole time! It's to be EXPECTED, in other words, that we're 'different people' when dealing with NMs or when we're dealing with a den of poisonous snakes!

Thanks Chris!!🤗

I'm so sorry that you had to find out about MIL's situation!!

I'm sure that causes pangs of guilt, but you did everything you could!!

BIL & SIL should be ashamed of themselves!!

Jodi, you are a different person with your NM as you are guarded, wary, fearful, distrustful, abused, and so on and so on.....

Like victims of other kinds of abuse, it is very hard for those experiences to not impact other areas of your life.

All I think you can do is to be self aware about this, and it is great that you are. Maybe write down the feelings and behaviours you have when with your mother, then ask yourself if you ever feel or behave like this with your DH. It might well throw up some danger areas that you could work on. Share the learning you get from doing this, with your DH. He sounds very supportive and I’m sure he would really help you if he knows that you are distressed and frustrated by some of your feelings and behaviours.

And remember, keep telling yourself: none of this is your fault.

Sorry Ladies,

I have to play catch up, but I wanted to share this before it gets lost in the cavern of the last few days.
It was an eye opener for me !

Visit with NM on Sunday (Mother's day) and I had to take NM to her Dr's appointment today.

My DH made the comment this evening that I am a totally different person when I have to deal directly with my Mom.

I'm at a loss!

How do we separate being the daughter of a narcissistic mother,
and the loving supportive wife?

How do we not let our narcissistic parents infect our relationship with our spouse???

Quite upset to find out that last summer my MIL went a month without getting to the food shops as my BIL and SIL kept saying they were too busy to take her. She was reliant on them for transport, living in a village with no bus service. All the online delivery slots were booked up, and she ended up living on scraps of food from the small amount of canned food she had in the house. We didn’t know - and she only told her BF afterwards. I’d kept asking her on our weekly phone calls if she had enough food in the house and she’d said she was fine. It turns out she was fearful of upsetting BIL and SIL by accepting the offer of an order of food from us.

I contrast this with the complete focus I had last year on making sure my family, including my NM, were kept well fed. I remember how my NM just kept expecting the food to magically appear, with no thought as to how difficult that was sometimes, with large queues to get into stores, no online delivery slots and the worry of catching COVID and bringing it into the house. At the peak of the problem, before the stores had got their Covid secure policies in place and their distribution channels sorted, I spent hours each week trying to source new food providers, so I could avoid supermarkets and so protect my NM.

I suppose what I’m getting at is that there is a huge sense of injustice when you are dealing with narcissistic people, on top of the other angst and distress they cause. You do your best and that is ignored or taken for granted, while others do nothing, profess to be saints themselves and people believe them, or at the very least they get away with their poor behaviour.

Chris: Prayers for your DH.

Chris, oh PERFECT about the minister! No wonder why the BIL & SIL don't want your MILs friend to attend the funeral! She has THE GOODS on them! HA! I'll say it again: KARMA is comin' round the bend for those 2 rogues, as you call them!

Stilldealing, everything sounds very difficult for you. I know you’ve been reading a lot around the subject, but have you tried writing down your thoughts when they are overwhelming you? We’ve discussed this many times before on this forum. Sometimes the only way to stop the thoughts is to get them out - a bit like a purge of the system I think. It works for me. You’re right, there are some terrible stories here, but also so much goodness from all the support we give each other. I think together we can ensure the goodness eventually overcomes the badness.

Lea, I am on the case about my MIL’s friend if she decides to attend the funeral. I am in contact with the minister and will ask him to take care of her before and after the service, which I know he would gladly do. She is a feisty old bird though and is more than a match for those two rogues! She has told my DH a lot of things today about their behaviour towards my MIL spanning many years. Some of it is really shocking. I am pleased though that he now has a line of communication with her, as she knows she hasn’t been forgotten and she’s validated his honesty and integrity.

Stilldealing, nice to see you posting! I can surely understand your NM relishing the role of 'in pain dying martyr'...........unbelievable as it is. I always say, these women fight and fight and FIGHT right to the BITTER end. Right until their last breath, and it's the 100% God's-honest truth. Making everyone's life a true nightmare every step of the way; it's the purpose of their life. :(

Chris............hmmm, wondering what will happen if your MILs friend does show up uninvited to the funeral; what will BIL and SIL do, I wonder?? That kind of worries me; that she would be there all alone with no support, at the mercy of those two terrible people who have proven themselves to be of the worst possible character.

I don't blame you for feeling traumatized by their horrible behavior. Good and normal people NEVER expect such vile actions from others; it's out of the scope of what our minds can imagine, you know? Then, to apply it to a FAMILY member is even more unimaginable. Kind of like what we deal with with the NMs from time to time; seeing THAT level of nastiness is hard to wrap one's mind around b/c we ourselves don't feel it in our hearts. Sociopathic type behavior is reserved for criminals and lunatics, we feel, not our loved ones for petesake! But then, we're gobsmacked that these sociopaths exist in our families and were able to HIDE it for so long! Makes one sick to the stomach, doesn't it?

Hi All-Been away for some time. I felt I needed to do some reading, looking for ways to stop the ruminating 'script' in my head since I am 'still dealing' with a severely narcissistic mother. (She is still living, despite all odds being against her. Her hospice nurse thinks she enjoys being the dying in pain martyr.) One book I read was 'Mothers Who Can't Love', by Susan Forward. It was insightful, even though I have done much reading on narcissistic mothers and their horrible legacies. Particularly alerted on theme of family 'enmeshment'. Made the realization that my mother deliberately created 'enmeshed' scenarios, and worse, had to make the realization that I was part of that enmeshment scheme and probably stressed out my sibs who are doing their own best to just survive in the face of her dying narcissism. Going to work on that, and someway/somehow get past this stupid ruminating.

On another note, I see that much has happened here in this forum in April and May. My thoughts are with all of you who are dealing with the aftermath of family deaths, and with health matters of your true loved ones. So many heartbreaking stories here, yet there is resilience, and humor, and support. Something that narcissists can't destroy, and that gives 'hope'.

Thank you Lea. My visit to NM turned out ok actually. Having some distance between us is good. I still don't know where our relationship is at, though - I guess this is the case with narcs. You are on guard at all times.

Yes, I think I am traumatised from BIL and SIL behaviour. I knew they could be difficult but all of this is way beyond anything I would have ever imagined of them. I can't eat, with the stress of it all, and drift aimlessly about each day.

Thankfully DH met my MIL's oldest friend today. She had been told that my MIL had died, but had not been invited to the funeral, and was confused and upset but hadn't wanted to intrude by phoning my BIL. She was really cross about the terrible accusations levelled at my DH, and about the lies about funeral invites and attendees. He gave her a cherished photo of her with my MIL, which she really appreciated. DH will pay for her transport to the funeral if she wishes to go. I think she will be a real support to my DH over the coming months, and he will be for her, too.
I expect him home very late tonight and as he has tomorrow off work, I am insisting he has a day of complete rest.

Chris............I'd like to say I'm surprised at your BIL and SIL's behavior but I'm not. Not in the slightest. Criminals are ALL stupid and think they'll never, ever get caught, which is why the jails & prisons are so full! People rob banks on a daily basis in spite of there being CAMERAS installed all over the place! "Oh, I'll never get caught" they say. HA! I'd love to hear how they plan to squirm out of the questions about where the missing large pieces of antique china have gone? And again, karma comes along to bite them when they least expect it, one hopes.

To know that they've behaved in such a ludicrous way towards MILs friend, pocketing the money that was to go towards her transport to the funeral, and not INVITING her! Omg, how disgusting IS that? Neither of you had any idea just how low the two of them could stoop, or how ugly they are as human beings, huh? It's always a terrible thing to find such information out about family members. I'm glad your DH did not stay at his mum's house............sad but true.

I hope the visit with your NM goes well. Pretty sad when a visit THERE is something you're looking forward to, huh? Sending you a big hug today, dear Chris.

It’s good to read how each of us are finding our own coping strategies and also how we are learning from each other and benefitting from our mutual support.

I’m still feeling very stressed today for my DH. He made the journey from one side of the country to the other last night, to go to his mum’s house today to deal with a surveyor who needs to look at her collection of valuable antique china, and who will then remove it from the house for safekeeping. DH stayed in a hotel as I was fearful of his safety if he’d stayed in his mum’s house, with the BIL living in the same village. He managed to call in on his mum’s oldest friend en route, who confirmed she’d not been invited to MIL’s funeral. My MIL gave my BIL some money to pay for her transport to the funeral, as she is not very wealthy. He has pocketed the money for himself instead!
Thankfully my DH had the good sense and foresight to photograph all of the china a few weeks ago when he went to say goodbye to his mum. He knew there was a distinct possibility that the SIL would help herself to things. It was just as well he did this as today he found the items had been rifled through and several large pieces have disappeared. He informed the surveyor and the solicitor and has photographs of the missing items. My SIL and BIL are so stupid. They took the largest items, presumably thinking they were the most valuable, whereas it’s actually the smallest pieces that are of the highest value! Also, it hadn’t crossed their minds that the large items might not be missed - doh! There is still the matter of the missing antique jewellery.
My DH is revisiting his mum’s old friend on the way home today, and has found some nice photos of the two of them together, that he can pass on as a nice keepsake. Then he will call in to see our son. I have told our son it’s the first time in his life that he needs to support his dad, rather than the other way round. DH will finally get back here around midnight I guess.

I am supposed to go over and see NM this afternoon. I’m so stressed and restless in the house that I’m actually looking forward to going - how desperate is that? I would love some support from her but am not building up my hopes, and then I won’t be disappointed.

Shell - Do what you need to do to feel better, you no longer have to walk on eggshells, You can even be yourself without backlash, without everything being questioned "If I said the wrong thing my mother would get back at me & I would never even know what I said or done" I know this feeling all too well always careful what I share, never knowing what kind of response I was going to get. After years of keeping secrets that didn't warrant it should be somewhat liberating to have that weight off, try to appreciate it now as best as you can.

Everyone out there - when you go to the grocery next buy yourself some flowers!

Shell: You're very welcome. File the letter as you did and don't look at it again.

Chris: I am glad that your DH was shown compassion. The BIL and SIL's despicable deck of cards came tumbling down as it should!

I am doing better! As I am throwing my NM stuff away it is making me feel better!

Llama,
I am doing better. I had a big cry the other night for that little girl in me! I put my mother's letter away! It just makes me mad! Mad because why couldn't she see what she did yrs ago or a year ago? Nope it had to happen right before she died! But I guess that was how it was suppose to work out!

Xray,
I think she did make things right with God! I think that is one of the reasons she wrote that letter. As hurt & mad I am about what she did to me and what a mess she left me, I do pray that she is finally at peace! I did forgive her!

Cascia,
It is exhausting and frustrating dealing with someone who only sees their needs & wants. Like you & probably most here, you have to walk on eggshells with these women. For me, I couldn't even be myself or there would be some kind of backlash! If I said the wrong thing my mother would get back at me & I would never even know what I said or done, but that is how they are!! I haven't liked Mother's Day either because it always brought out the fact that I didn't have a loving & caring mom. Selfishness has to be the worst thing to deal with! I am truly sorry that you have to be apart of this club! It really sucks!!! Hugs!!

Piper,
I do think that my mother's letter was a trigger for me. I didn't think about it in that way! I did put her letter away! The words I long to hear from her came three days before her death! I can't help but think she wrote it because she knew she was dying...like she had no choice but to make things right with me for 'Her Sake.'

I think it is a great idea to comfort the little girl, but I don't have a clue on how to do that. My dad raised me to be tough & strong. "Crying is for the weak & if your going to cry don't let anyone see it." My dad always told me to NEVER let anyone see you weak or know your weak points because they will use it against you! So, I am use to 'manning' up so to speak!

I am hoping that with new paint, carpet, and our stuff here will help me feel much better! I will be selling the house, but that is a few years off.

Lea,
I am sorry that everytime you turn around that it is 'ALWAYS SOMETHING!' You just never get a break from their shenanigans! Hugs!!


Thanks to all of you for your love & support! Sending all of you love, peace, & hugs!


Side Note: This is going to sound bad, but I took some of my mother's dolls (china) and the dishes & her nik naks (her precious things) and I smashed them in my driveway! That got out a lot of anger! My hope for what could have should have been died with her! I have hope for a new life!!

Chis,
The nerve of some people! I'm with Lea, what a horrible person your SIL is to make the funeral her stage!! And I sorry, but you have to be a low life to drag (Name calling or whatever) your son into this mess. It's fine if your DH brother has a problem with him, but to drag your son into it! Ugh!!

My dad use to tell me how funerals usually bring the worst out in people & it does! In my own family after my dad died my mother & brother acted like vultures. Sounds like your SIL & BIL are acting the same way! That is to bad!

If you think your SIL is a narc then you're probably right! Furthermore, in my experience the ones who accuses you of wanting all the money or is doing all the accusing of whatever it is are usually the ones who want it or doing it!

If I was your DH I would tell SIL to mine her own business because this wasn't her mom and she needs to but out, and do things that his mom because after all it's about his mom! A funeral is the last day where it is about the life & celebrating of that person's life!

I'm sorry for your loss and all the bs your DH & you are going through! Hugs!!