so it is apparent, that as I remember this is the son that was mad that his father and I did not ask his permission to get remarried, and he made both of our lives heck.

It is obvious that if we do not open up to him and tell him adult things that are between us, then he will not have a relationship with us.

Then the final

I am not trying to punish you, but I am just not comfortable meeting you both until we have had the opportunity to address some of this stuff. I would like for you to meet your first grandchild at some point though (gee isn't that nice), what am I supposed to feel like? This child is still pulling the strings of mother and father and just does not like the way we put the things onto him.

He is accountable for his actions.
He is responsible for how he feels, and he needs to heal.

My goodness, he wants me and his father to go back 20 years and remember what the heck happened.

I am the kind of person that communicates immediately regarding an issue and the other thing, if you say what you feel, and he doesn't agree, then you are out of his life. This is all about in my opinion, his ability to control, me, my husband, his father, and his step mother.

To me, it is like "perhaps we can arrange a time for the family to get together at Sue's once the baby is here!

Welcome BAby!

I cannot tell you in the last five to six years every occasion, my husband and I were mailed back our christmas stockings because there was not enough room.

This was my sister. No one has said anything. My father would have stated something. I don't know. Why his father too! We have lived apart for 29 years. We know he is writing this because if we don't state what he wants, which I am not sure, in 2004, I told him I was sorry for everything, and that I am doing the best in my life. I paid $500 per month for car insurance because the kid was in so many wrecks. That is stupidity.

I am thinking of getting a counselor, and bringing the two of us together, what is any one other's advice.

We feel that Daniel has been very upset because he is a product of a divorce. Icannot change that, but he has done everything in his power to make our lives miserable. And ignore all calls, I stopped calling years ago, and also why has my family stopped having room for me for all birthday's, shirley, they are not in this with my 32 year old son whom has been traveling the country. Meanwhile, yes, I am the dutiful daughter that lovingly volunteers my nights for my mother every night at the Alzheimer's home, not one says thank you anything. This is just the family that went wrong. My mother was an alcoholic. I never drank at all, every, and I told him some stories of the trauma that I was through, but I don't know, I think that he has always been a child that debates and was on the debate team in college and he is always right. From what I read, he is ready to talk as long as we agree with him.

My issues are not his to fix, and it has been very clear to me over the last 10 - 15 years that he has been intentionally ignoring his father and I unless he needed money. The few interactions I have had with him have been very miserable. I tried to take him to dinner, and he ate so fast, it was horrible. I had an ingrown toenail and asked him to walk slower and he didn't. He drove my car, and was so fast that I could smell the tires burning on the road. This is a young man that needs help. Do you all suggest that I get a therapist and the three of us meet.

Of course the pawn is this, if we behave like good parents, he will let us see the baby.

What a day.
Sunday (last) I was bitten by a dog. I will say, that hurts, but the scars will fade hopefully, this is just something where the scars will be there for life.

Comments to all of you who are real, and care, and make a difference.

Thank you and Happy Thanksgiving to everyone.

DH :-)

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Palmtrees. you are right, too many people not speaking. after my sister's husband died 10 years ago, I offered to put on the celebration of life for her. She agreed and that was that.

You are right that too many people are not talking, but what do I do? Are you suggesting I am sitting back in my rocking chair waiting for the phone to ring? no.

I have every year, tried different attempts to get people to talk, and once sister said "never share with anyone ever your life's situations" they will never see you the same. Ok, that states, she is not willing and I mean not willing to discuss anything.

The other sister numerous times, I have said, I would like very much for the three of us to sit down and get together. The answer: We need to focus on mom and dad?

My answer: Sue, mom and dad would want you to focus on you. You have always been an enabler as you are from the same household I grew up in "the house of secrets" I am not a hero palm, I am NOT A VICTIM, I am just saying, humm ok, I need to decide where I go with this. My sister stated, well it is never a good time to discuss this.

Then one year, I hired a counselor, and told everyone to show up, not including my aging parents, and I was the only one that showed up.

I am the only one, other than my 26 year old son, that is up front and wants to talk about things as they come. I cannot force someone to talk. Do I think it is about me. No, I do not, but I think because I am the mother of the son, it "at a default" is about my son, believe you me, for all of you that think I have to know, as I say, why would I be airing my dirty laundry just for one morsel of salt that will give me a hint of what where and why this could be.

I do not agree that we are always part of the problem. I am his mother yes, I am that because I gave birth to him. If he is 32, and has decided to go south mentally, are you saying that I am part of the problem? I disagree. Especially, when if you read in 2004, my talk with him about life, and that life isn't fair, and all of the things in life, where i felt I did wonderful as a mom, and did my best. Look,if this post gets to be about "you know what is going on" then close it down, I know what is going on, and it is "confusion" I just talked to my sister, and she said "ok I have to go now" that is the most I have gotten from them. Really? Why? Do they not like me because my 88 year old almost dying mother has a picture of me and my boys out and not them, is it because my father stated to them that I am the one with my head on my shoulders because I do not react, I think before I state something. By the way, I have not stated anything to my son.

Before this email, and this email is just that an email from someone I gave birth too. I will not be altered or touched by anyone that is saying "live life the way I want you to live it, tell me what I want to hear, no that is not how I work" I am very happy in my life, I have already gone through the grief of losing him, if he wants to come back that is wonderful, but really on the terms he says.

I am sorry, those terms are not fair at all, and regardless what I wrote on here was this is what he said, do any of you have any ideas, then it got down to "you have to know" really, well guess what 10 years ago, my psychologist stated to create a new family, to get to know another family, that your family was so dysfunctional and a was blaming b and b was blaming c, and c (me) was literally being treated so poorly, and she just sat there watching all this whirlwind around me. It was like that, and I have witnesses to that, people could not believe how I was treated so poorly, why because I loved my mother unconditionally when I didn't have a mom until she was 54? (Alcoholism), or because I loved my father unconditionally because that is how I was raised, Raised, where were they? I don't know, please be delicate with this.

I agree with Jeanne on this one, too much going on here. Too many people not speaking. You have to start somewhere and no matter how good we think we are, we are always part of the problem to some degree. No one fights with themselves alone and no one is the perfect victim.

I wish you well.

As you are his mother, you do not have to ask his permission for anything. If he is only willing to talk to you on his terms and conditions, please forget about it. I have had similar problems with my adoptive daughter. She left home when she was 16 and stayed under guidance of an organisation taking care of young people under 18 who do not want to live with their parents any longer. She was angry with us because apparently she had to work too much (just cleaning her room and helping a hand in the kitchen with dish washing etc..) Of course once she was 18, she went working and got herself a small flat. It goes without saying that after a few months she had countless unpaid bills, electricity and gas were cut off and she had a baby in the meantime. The father of the child had not taken his reponsability and then she came knocking at my door. As a mother, you do not send them back. Specially for the baby I arranged that there was gas and electricity and went shopping with her to buy necessary food for her and her baby. I did not give her money. I also have written multiple letters to try to come to terms with all her outstanding payments, so that she could pay back in small amounts every month. Once everything was turning round again, and she had a new boy friend, my intervention was no longer needed, and no more phone calls, no more visits. This situation of ups and downs continued for about 8 years. When her 3rd partner left her, now having 3 children, she showed up again. During all these years, I did not contact her the first, as she had blown up the relationship between us each time, so I left her, giving her the time to think things over. Apparently she had become a bit more adult and no longer blamed me for all kind of things I was not responsible for. And being angry because I did not want to give her money each time. So I waited and waited. Of course this hearts a lot. But it was up to her to come to me, and not vice versa. We now have a very good relationship. We have good contact by mail and get messages from my grandchildren through facebook. she has no car, and lives quite a distance from me. Until a couple of years ago, I went to see her and the kids, but as I am now suffering severe backpain, I can not drive my car for long distances. But we phone and mail each other regularly and once a year I see her when she comes over with her kids for Christmas and New Year. So I can only advise you to stay firm and not give in to his ridiculous demands. Concentrate on yourself and the people who still love you. One day, he will understand that he can not play his game with you. Big hug from Belgium, Europe.

I have a dil that is similar. She cut me and my daughter off after she married my middle son, and that was after we had apologized every way we knew how to for the personal affronts she felt from us. The result was I could not socialize with my son for a number of years. I bent over backwards (not recommending that) and I was forgiven, I guess, and started being included though she still won't see my daughter. Then recently she started saying that I cannot talk about my daughter in her presence, then, I cannot talk about my mother in her presence - all of this because it stresses her too much. Not acceptable to me! However, she is not shy is asking to borrow money, or have my son ask on her behalf. He never borrowed money from me before he met her, and always managed his money well. Draw your own conclusions. I have put up with some of this to keep a relationship with my son, as in the past he took her side and said he had to support his wife. Recently, I tried talking to him again about the family division etc. and his comment was that his wife has problems. This is progress. I said I was more than willing to go to counselling with them to resolve this and he nodded and looked very pleased. I intend to follow up.

After the last bit of nonsense, I had decided no more loans, basically because it is not a good idea, generally. I don't mind once or twice, but this is becoming habitual, but had not told them that yet, when son asked again for a loan for an expense for her. I agreed, as it will be a short turn around, and I am going to use this opportunity for, basically, an intervention. They will be told - no more loans, they need to manage their financial lives without my help. I will give them some ideas how people manage, and I will also address the family conflict e.g. she is telling me I can't talk about this and that, has prevented the family from getting together for the last 6 years or so, will not socialize with my daughter so my son has a niece and nephew he hardly knows, but wants me to lend her money. I will point out that this is way out of balance and will not continue, and I am willing to go to counselling with them to help resolve it. G will be with me in this meeting, and I will rely on his diplomacy. He has much work experience dealing with difficult "people" situations.

I am not recommending this, other than get a counsellor involved and draw some boundaries. In short, you are not alone, I understand, and wish you all the best. I know I am risking loosing contact with my son again, though I don't think it is as great a risk as it was before, but some risks are worth taking. Families are far from perfect and they do require work. The serenity prayer is useful - God grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change; courage to change the things I can; and wisdom to know the difference. ((((((hugs)))))

I'm with Jeanne on this. Find yourself a therapist who can help you understand what is going on and how you can best keep yourself from getting sucked into this vortex of mental un-health. And please remember, it's the healthy folks who seek psychiatric and psychological care, not the "crazies".

Get counselling. Start alone. The therapist may want to include your husband, and/or your ex-husband, and/or your son (if he would cooperate). But start with yourself and see where that leads.

I'd say you did a darn good job of raising your child. Tell him that if he doesn't wish to have anything to do with you, that's too bad. Do not give him the baby clothes or anything else. He's a grown man and can supply clothes for his baby. Quit communicating with him, go on with your life and at some point you may discover that he comes to you.

You mentioned he ignores you for the last ten to fifteen yrs. unless he needs money, I think that says it all.He is a grown *ss man,34yrs old!,take yourself to a therapist, he can get his own,spend your money on yourself.If you have other children that you do have good relations with concentrate on them.Not every family is the Brady Bunch.

my youngest just wrote and wanted to borrow a concrete saw. a couple of years ago he took my new one and nearly destroyed it cutting steel . a weaker , dumber parent might loan him the saw . i told him i cant have it wrecked , have an upcoming job where i need it . my point is ; a kid isnt going to respect you if your TOO easy either .
if you were paying 5 bills a month for insurance for your kid you werent attaching consequences to his actions .
my youngest got thrown in jail once for being abusive to cops . grandma bailed him out but we let him stew for about 6 days in jail first . thats 6 days to figure out that dad cant or wont save me from my own stupidity . word got to the judge that we let him languish in jail and she complimented me for it when we went to court . id told the bailiff at the jail that jake was a pretty good young man but that ' hard - on with authority needed to be tazed out of him . the next time he went to jail ( cussin up the place ) they lit him up . im a parent and im on the side of authority and the school ( of hard knocks ) .

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