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It's often a power struggle, but unfortunately when the elderly driver digs in his/her heels that's what it has to come down to. For THEIR own good.

My rationale concerning my Mother's driving was (still is) that she'd reached a point where even though she was at the early stages of dementia and fine in many ways, she was in some instances beginning to be NOT in her right mind. Also, since the driving issue concerned her 'independence' (how I now LOATHE that word!) she could not be objective about driving. So I - being the one person who WAS in her right mind, AND the objective one - had to take control of the situation, which I did. I took the keys, and had my boyfriend disable the car (I think pulling something out of the distributor cap...?). Then, as I said in my earlier post, I had others contact the DMV. It was sad, but I did what I believed was the only right thing to do under those circumstances. I will never regret not letting her drive. And BELIEVE me, there were BATTLES where it would have been much easier if I'd just given in to her.

I know what can happen with elderly drivers, and what helped me to action and to stand my ground was remembering: 1. My Grandmother - in her early 80's, and whose car I was supposed to get when she quit driving (I was in high school), wrapped said car around a tree, totaling it. Luckily, she was okay. And then 2. Her sister - my Tanta Emma - also in her early 80's - wasn't so lucky. She was driving, ran a stop sign, and was broadsided. She and her husband Walter were okay at the time, but a few months later poor Walter died. It was believed the shock to his body from the accident was what did him in. Oh yeah - Emma died a few months after that - depressed, and wracked with guilt believing that she'd killed her husband.

So, when I'd start getting weak-kneed thinking perhaps I was being 'mean', 'unfair', whatever about stopping Mom's driving and perhaps I should reconsider, I'd literally think back about Grandmom and Tanta Emma and KNOW I'd made the right decision concerning Mom's driving.

Stopping my Mother's driving was a tough choice, but many times the right thing to do isn't always the easiest. I hope this gives some food for thought.
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I know I am responding late, but it all sounds like this can really turn into a huge power struggle. It can also end up in sneaking around, as I see in the example of the disconnected battery cables. One power move is responded to by another power move, I suppose, then one person gets angry and the other responds even angrier. I suppose the "nice" approach might end up even worse, coming across as passive-aggressive since the ultimate goal, as seen from the view of the elder, is not protection but disempowerment. Looks like reasoning, which will likely work with a college student (such as explaining "prison"), won't necessarily work with an elder.

How about a reward? Rewarding the elder for NOT driving, say, rewarding for using a substitute for driving, or doing the other thing besides driving such as allowing another person to drive or using a cab or bus? Or a reward for giving up the car or keys? This would have to be straightforward, done lovingly, not patronizing, consistent with what you promise, and a offering rather decent temptation to give in to giving up driving. Just a thought. This way, you are relieved from the game playing and power struggles which sound truly exhausting.
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When they get dementia and keep driving, there's always the rationalization: 'oh, Mom won't be doing any REAL driving, like on highways. She'll just drive the few blocks to the Dollar Store, or around the corner to do her grocery shopping.' Then Mom gets lost on the way, buys several dozen ears of corn for a fantasized dinner party she's going to have, and ends up several miles out of town, lost, out of gas....Even if they still have their wits, their eyesight, judgement, and reflexes are too poor for them to drive safely. Don't forget the all-too-frequent "I thought I was stepping on the brake, not the gas!"...I know I am preaching to the choir here about dangerous elderly drivers. It could be YOUR relative. My relative was sharp as a tack at age 90 but ended up crashing her car up over the sidewalk, into the wall of a building while backing up, supposedly. . No injuries, thank God, but she said, 'well, I guess my driving days are over, huh?'
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Going over this thread, I see I'm answering the same questions over and over again. And all of my answers are ... well ... incoherent, at best.

My apologies, and thank you all very much for your patience.
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We made the decision to take mom's car away. My brother did all the talking, AND took the key, but with short-term memory loss due to dementia, she forgot all that. On the way out, I told my brother I KNOW she has another key, can you disable the car? So he pulled the battery cable.
Next day at a funeral service, I get a call, let it go to voicemail. NASTY message accusing me of taking her key and wants it back NOW. I returned her call and said I did not touch your key (truth). So she says who did then? Just replied you're so smart, you figure it out and hung up.
NEXT day I get a nastier call DEMANDING I come down and fix whatever I did to her car... so I was right about her having another key and she managed to locate it and try to go out. I just said I did nothing to it, maybe the battery is dead.
We eventually took it to the mechanic because she had ruined one tire and rim (hence me saying we HAVE to take this away) and then using POA sold it.
She still moans about not having "wheels" and being unable to get out. With limited hearing (none on one side, hearing aid that *might* be working and/or not lost), macular degeneration (legally blind in one eye) AND having no idea where she is anymore, we had to step in. She also had "passed" their test, but license is good for 5 YEARS.. thankfully it is now expired. Last time driving/wheels came up I had her take the license out and look at it - when does it expire mom? Oh it is good through 2016 - yes mom, until your birthday, which was in AUGUST!
So, if there is a way to get access briefly to the keys, have someone pull the battery cable.... He might figure it out, but it's worth a try... get it towed to "mechanic" and keep delaying it's return...
As for someone's suggestions about other ways to get the meds - can they not mail them? My mother's insurance uses CareMark mail order for long term meds, so I just used POA to get them sent to me instead of her because she could not remember if she took them or not.
Best of luck - research all your options. Elder Care attorney's are not cheap, but if all else fails...perhaps they can help?
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If their visit involves a doctor check up at the VA (which is usually does to get the VA discount on drugs) check with your local VA office. They offer free transport to DR visits. They did this for my Dad.
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If my FIL gets into an accident, it's MY fault ... and No One Else's. I get that. It's plain and simple truth.

I have tried guilting - so have others - but it only comes out as us being catastrophizing, and results in an increase in my FIL's determination to drive. It does *not* turn into guilt on my in-laws' part.

My own husband cannot drive - he had to stop at age 54. He accepts this now, though it's hard on him. My own spouse and I were able to deal with it, and to adapt, on our own - no need for aid from relatives, police or DMV (it did help that his doctors were also very clear on this). I was never in denial. My MIL knows we went through it, and that we manage. But at age 85, she does not have the same outlook, or husband-wrangling skills, as I did.

When I'm around, I do the driving. Not negotiable, not anymore. I'm almost never too far from home to turn around and take them somewhere. But if I'm not right there at the house when he wants to drive? He drives. (We do not live in the same neighborhood, but we're very close.)

While I am gradually getting through to my MIL - she does call on me more often - it's too slow for safety. Mea culpa.
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Sometimes guilt tripping guilt tripping makes someone wake up because sometimes people need a wake up call. I think I personally would rather guilt trip someone rather than let this go and run the risk of someone getting seriously hurt or even killed. I don't think I could live with myself if I were the one who knew someone was a dangerous driver and I said or did nothing. I think I personally would rather be guilt trip and moved to save a life by reporting a dangerous driver rather than to deal with blood on my hands because I knew my spouse was an accident waiting to happen. Putting myself in this situation, I can honestly say I would rather save a life no matter what it takes rather than to rest other lives by letting a dangerous driver stay on the road and possibly kill someone. People who should no longer be driving are a danger to not only themselves, but others. People who would disagree are actually selfish and don't care about others on our public streets, of course unless something were to happen to them! What if this dangerous driver were to kill some child out there, then what? What would you then tell those parents of that now deceased child? Someone new this dangerous driver was still out there and knew what was going on and said nothing despite passing a test in front of strangers who don't know what kind of driver this really is? I know I would be killing someone if they struck my child and then I later found out something like this
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A guilting approach only results in shutdown. In other words, it's been tried, and not just by me.

I suspect *I'm* the one who needs guilting, and lots of it, because I haven't been able to come up with a unilateral solution.
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OK then, ask her what it's going to take for her to turn to the right channels for help. Is it going to take her getting hurt very badly in a car wreck caused by him or him killing someone? Ask her what it will take because it sounds like he must be an accident waiting to happen. If he stops short right at the intersection, it's only a matter of time before the brakes will fail and a car will hit them, 50-50 chance of it hitting on her side and her getting hurt so bad she ends up in critical care and maybe comatose. What will it take? Ask her that. Did you know that if she knows something and she says or does nothing that she's actually just as bad as the bad driver for covering for that bad driver because she becomes an accomplice when everything is found out in an investigation. You just wait, it's coming I promise you that
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My FIL's still got it too much together for "losing" the keys or hiding/tampering with the car to work. Moreover, my MIL needs the car, and is still capable of driving. When she feels less than confident (e.g., night, rain, freeway), she does ask me to drive.

My husband agrees with me completely, but cannot handle the situation directly due to post-stroke issues of his own. (Especially unfortunate since my husband cannot drive, either, so he'd otherwise be a persuasive factor.)

My MIL will *NOT* work with me in dealing with the police or his doctors. Not yet, anyway. She's getting there, but ... it's a process. She *does* conspire with me to take the car on some of their trips, and she's opening up more and more about her concerns in general.
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You're in a very difficult situation. What does your husband say about it? Can he talk to his father and perhaps persuade him to give up driving? Years ago our neighbor, who lived alone, had reached the point where he should give up driving, but refused. His adult kids disabled his car and left it park under the tree he'd run into in his front yard. If that isn't an option, maybe you could tell your FIL that you have several personal errands to run while on the out of town trip to get their meds and groceries and would prefer to use your own car. Good luck.
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I think I would definitely start talking to the highway patrol and other law-enforcement and tell them exactly what you know. See how they can guide you in this despite him passing his test. They're not with him all the time, and it seems like these episodes come and go. I'm not sure how much leverage you're going to have since he's passed his test, I just don't know in a case like that. What I would do is take his wife with you if possible when you start talking to lawn force meant about what's going on. Another thing you can consider is getting a written statement from her in her own words and turn it in to law enforcement. It may turn out that they may start watching him very close and if they say anything, they'll pull him over. Meanwhile, have you thought of getting a hold of the keys and hiding them somewhere? I definitely wouldn't vandalized his car to disable it because you could get in trouble for vehicle vandalism. This is why I suggested something as simple as hiding the keys somewhere, or at very least remove the ignition key when he's not around and he lays down his keys somewhere like on the table. If you know where his keys are, remove the ignition key at very least. If he's out in the middle of a parking lot, see if you and some of your other driving buddies can block him in and just don't move to let him out. You can plan on law enforcement coming to the scene if you happen to catch something on video that needs attention. You can catch video on something such as a – cam
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OK, you might want to remind him of the legal consequences if he hits someone and rear ends them because it'll be his fault more than likely. They'll give him for "failure to stop within assured clear distance." You'll also want to warn him since there are tons of bikers out there. All you have to say is, "kill a biker, go to jail!" I've never been in jail but I've watched enough shows and videos and even know people who've been there, and according to descriptions, jail won't be easy no matter who you are. I think it's time to start opening your mouth and speaking up every time he comes up on someone's back because what if his brakes failed and he actually slammed into someone, and maybe even killed them or worse yet, a biker? This is why they told us in the group home to stay at least three car length behind someone on the road, and I later heard you should stop one car length or farther behind them.
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I think my mention of the military base has been distracting. Apologies!

Most of the bases around here have closed, so the one he uses IS the closest one. He can get meds through a civilian provider - but they would cost several hundreds of extra dollars per month. (He does not get anything though the VA.)

That said ... his driving's the issue. I have offered and offered and offered to drive them - and not just to the base and back. I can do so with ease. (Sometimes, they'll let me.) They're a few minutes away, and I'm retired, so my own convenience is not an issue.

So yes, they need to go there. But he does *not* need to drive. He looks for reasons to do so. If we eliminated the base trips, he'd simply find a different long drive to take.
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I'm starting to wonder if it's possible that he may still be driving because this is the only way he can ever get his meds since this branch doesn't offer mail or delivery. This is just a thought, a possible reason that may be keeping him behind the wheel since he really needs those meds and they happen to be provided by that particular military base. Maybe he's driving because he has to, is this a possibility? This is exactly what I'm wondering
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The ER may have asked my MIL before we were allowed to enter the room. This was definitely an accident (I was there, and besides, I know my FIL). They would not have gone any further.

Several years ago, our state DMV got in a spot o' bother for yanking licenses inappropriately, so they've since swung in the opposite direction. Many doctors are also reluctant to act.

Practically speaking, it's the family's sole responsibility, which we must proudly take on with our hands tied behind our backs. I don't think I'm *legally* liable, but morally and ethically, where it really counts -- I'm 150% responsible.

I don't think driving privileges should be based on age, but on ability. Of course, ability should be tested more frequently after a certain age (though I'm not sure which age), and/or when certain medical conditions are present, and/or when driving records indicate possible issues.
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The eternal question: how safe is it for the old goats to continue driving themselves? (I am approaching old goat age myself, so chill out. I don't like driving with my husband who is a youngster of 63!) Something terrible is going to happen, eventually. Please read the responses here and do what you can. I can't believe they let some of these people keep their licenses and drive! It's like on 'Everybody Loves Raymond', where Frank was clearly an unsafe driver, but he kept getting OK'd at the DMV!
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Regarding the Rx, you might contact your federal Congressman (or woman). Their offices have people who address concerns of constituents who are having problems with federal programs, and veterans' benefits should be important to them.
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Confounded, I just was wondering if the ER personnel might get on your side. Evidently that episode was after FIL passed the DMV tests, so maybe he is "less able" to drive now.
I'd think the kind of injury your MIL had would have prompted the ER to ask questions--either he did it on purpose, which is spouse abuse, or it was an accident that could indicate declining driving ability. Either way, they should have records. I hope you can go to the BMV with this info and suggest he be retested.
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My MIL has trusted him for 65 years. She trusts what The Experts say, too. Despite that, she's become increasingly apprehensive, but she will not confront him directly on this. However, she has slipped me her car keys and helped me take over on occasion.

My husband is with me/us on this, but he's not in a place where he feels he can talk to either of them. For one thing, this is all very emotional for him, and his post-stroke response to strong emotion is to go into deep fatigue and involuntarily zone out. Talking strategically is also difficult for him most of the time. He wants to be on the team, so add his own frustration to the mix.

One of my sisters-in-law intends to move down this way in the next month or two. She filed the first report on my FIL. I just hope family dynamics (all families got 'em) don't stand in the way of sanity.
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God bless you, confounded! I question your MIL's mental state if she's willing to let him drive after having knocked her down with the car! My FIL had to have wife and both sons in agreement and nagging and taking the keys to stop him. Can your husband talk to his dad about it?
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Among the reasons I believe (OK, I'm sure) my FIL cannot drive include: Sudden, incautious lane changes and pullouts; Poor spacing - he drives far too close to cars ahead of him, but slows abruptly at intersections and stops 2 car lengths (or more) behind the next car; Fender-benders (admittedly minor, so far). He also tires easily - a big problem on trips outside the neighborhood.

His memory is poor, and just keeps getting worse. While he can perform all daily skills, I noticed he was not able to help my MIL much at the ER or after we got her home.

The day I sent my OP, he had just pulled out of the garage without checking to see if my MIL was completely in the car. He gets impatient - he had to go, and he had to move NOW! The car door knocked my MIL to the ground, and she hit her head on the pavement. We spent most of the day in the ER (he drove me, and it was scary). Luckily, my MIL's wound was relatively minor, though she still has a painful bump.

Then, he wanted me to go to the base with him the next day. With him driving, of course. I felt trapped and obligated. Many thanks, again, for helping me snap out of that!

He's already been reported to the DMV twice, and was cleared - again - just days before all of this. His regular doctor will NOT do anything - it was a substitute doctor who most recently tried to stop him from driving, and that doctor is pretty much never available.

There was no way to move further until all the holiday foo-far-rah was over, and now, of course, I've got a head cold to beat the band!

As soon as I'm reasonably non-contagious, I plan to talk to my MIL about the possibility of a neuropsych exam. She acknowledges that he has difficulties. I'm also documenting what I see so I can file my own report, if need be.

Unfortunately, I may need to ride with him at least once more so I can add to the documentation. Frankly, I'm a wimp about this (the riding, not the filing). Catch-22.

My MIL is non-techy by choice. But she is able to learn to do what she needs/wants to do. We may be able to work on an online prescription solution, if both the military and civilian insurers don't tangle them up in too much red tape.

My husband was forced to stop driving after his stroke at age 54. I had similar fun with him, too, for awhile. But his judgment improved over time, and he lost interest.
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My fil gets his meds in the mail from the va. He also gets his batteries through for his hearing aids vial mail from the va. i call the number at our va and voice commands prompts direct me to the correct dept.. ex. For batteries i get connected to the denver distribution ctnr. I just follow the prompts. I do this for my husband too.
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This is so difficult. On one side it is their independence and ability they are fighting to preserve, but things change. Capable, authoritative, military fathers (I presume) must be hard to say no to. Take my advice, as someone who knows, don't get in that car with them. It enables them. My dad drove his car off an embankment last summer. It didn't kill him then, but it was the beginning of the end. Just say no! Get their drugs from a cheap online pharmacy that will honor military benefits. Are they signed up for Medicare part D? Good luck to you. I've been in your shoes. My dad turned out to have an unusual kind of dementia that makes him think he is the same person he was 20 years ago, so the fact that he can't turn his head is irrelevant! Be careful. Good Luck.
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Oh, this post hits so close to home. My grandmother seems to have curtailed her driving because her vision now is just so poor. Finally! I've posted about her previously. It's terribly upsetting. She's been driving with expired license and no insurance. Her DMV license expired and insurance would not renew without her DMV license. She's had the opportunity to have her medications delivered to her since she's in a palliative care program but she denies signing up for the service so she continues to have a reason/excuse to drive across street to CVS to continue to get her meds filled there. While she bitches and moans they never coordinate her meds properly or they cost a couple of bucks despite her Medicare covering most of her meds at $0 cost to her and her healthy income, I've finally figured out she just wants a reason to get in the car so she can drive, shop at CVS! Any rational person would probably welcome the delivery. She won't even seek help with a personal shopper for groceries but does her own light grocery shopping across street. She just doesn't want to give up her control or independence no matter her heart condition despite her doctor's recommendations. The thought of her being in an accident, backing up over someone because she can't see or hear them just isn't important enough to her for her to consider giving up the keys. Only now that her vision is truly so bad with macular degeneration is this stopping her, or at least now limiting her from operating vehicle from time to time. I've long since done the driving for us when I visit as I won't allow her to drive the car for us. I put my foot down long time ago.

As to the original post, I think we often put our elder's needs above our own sometimes, and sometimes it's just ridiculous the things families go through. People need a reality check as aging brings uncomfortable realities and the older generations don't seem to have been equipped/prepared to deal with it. Perhaps the boomer generation will become more enlightened with aging and can gracefully move into their mature years without overly burdening their families or adding more dysfunction to troubled family relationships. I know family dynamics play a huge role in what can be said or not in difficult times. Control, manipulation, is at work etc. Social workers can often step in and be a buffer, a great source in these situations. Best of luck as things progress.
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The DMV says he is fine. What does he do that makes u uncomfortable? Have u discussed this with DMV?
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If he passed to special driving exams, I'm not sure there's going to be much you can do outside of getting a recording from an onboard dash cam or having someone outside the car witness any dangerous action that a witness can see. You may also want to go to the local police station or even your local highway patrol and alert them to what you're noticing and exactly what you described here, and see what they say. You may also want to alert your local APS to the problem and see how they can help you
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My mom's dr wrote a letter to the DMV and I took it with me to her appt there. Told them she has alzheimers, gave them letter from dr and still the idiot she went before asked her if she was voluntarally giving up her license! I could have kicked him! Fortunately mom was in a decent mood that moment and said I guess so. Can't trust DMV to do anything right.
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PS - I should add that it's my understanding that here in Florida a doctors' word is golden and can even trump a passed driving test. Also, I was tipped off with a nod and a wink that often the test givers at the DMV know ahead of time due to doctors' notes, etc. that the person should not be driving and take that in to consideration when giving the test (I don't want to say 'rig it' against the senior, but...well as I said a nod and a wink.
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