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Actually people can live on one income as long as they keep an eye on their budget and live within their means. It is why I thought neither was working. I missed the part where he was working. I hope they find a place soon, with the stress level in the house being high.
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tg, are you and Mrs. TG really up for another X months of the "kids" living with you? Because that's probably how long it will take for them to find THE right house, get the paperwork thru and move in. If they really don't want to leave the nice situation they have with you, they may well drag their feet on finding a house. With two incomes, they should be able to get into an apartment fairly soon.
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Actually he does have a job, a decent one with a manufacturing company, he dresses like that for work which is fine but ..... I give him credit for working but the rest of the package... I try to get along, he treats my daughter OK (that is one reason why he is still breathing today). He just like to have the i don't care what you think of me look.. Not that we have to look the part around here but we do live in a more affluent area. He doesn't like our area but hey I chose to live here! I get frustrated with people who come to an area and then complain about it..... The same with my father, if you don't like living here then go live with someone else!
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No wonder he can't find a job. He doesn't really want one.
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Still trying to be the good guy here. I have been trying to remain positive, not be the oppressive person I seem to be labeled as. It is difficult living with 5 adults in my house.
My wife and I had a few hours together Sunday AM with no one around and it was nice to have my house partly back. Spent the most of the day out. Then back to the houseful. Made homemade Clam Chowder.... tried to make dinner a nice social event but still a lot of tension. I know my daughter is tense but she made the choice to move home with her husband and dog (which I do a lot of caring for). I guess she was mad because my wife sprayed fabreeze in her room to combat the smell of laundry that was seeping into our hall. I mean really, we have a nice home and between my SIL and my father their laundry basket smells comes into the hall through closed doors and we have to smell it on our way to our room. My SIL smokes and for some reason his clothes smell (he dresses like a rocker).
Also he was walking his dog through the neighborhood and was upset that someone walking her dog was afraid of him. Now picture this, ball cap down over his eyes, smoking, foot long beard, rocker t shirt, baggy jeans, work boots walking a pit bull (very lovable puppy).... We live in a neighborhood of CEOs, professionals, doctors, business owners etc.... hmmmm I wonder why she was taking aback... he thought is was their fault they thought he was scary.............. Come on! We are not a snotty suburban neighborhood but if you dress like you live in bad boy gear expect the same treatment. He is more accustom to living in a basement and wanting a run down environment.
My daughter met him when they were both at a prestigious college. He was asked to leave due to his attitude, she chose to come home to an art college where she graduated. He is a nice guy but.... OK, I digress..........

And you wonder why I have stress?
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Thanks, all good messages, sometimes I just need to vent before it blows! Things are up and down everyday. Yes my father is a bit of a narcissist, my brother is the exact same way, maybe worse. We were sitting at dinner the other night, the kids thanked my wife for making dinner as did I and dad says "I had lunch at the (fill in the blank)..... my wife and I looked at each other, he will not give a compliment unless it is dessert then he has to critique it. My wife made her mothers french apple tart recipe and low and behold he was on it like a dog on a bone. Other wise nothing. Oh well, I have to laugh, my last resort. Didn't make dinner last night, ate leftovers, everyone is on their own, not making dinner tonight, I have a meeting, you are on your own! Made eggs and bacon yesterday AM for me, had the aroma of bacon in the house..... made it, ate it and cleaned up before anyone was up. You are on your own! Felt guilty for a minute, then I was over it. Trying to be a better person. My wife did have a long conversation with our daughter. They are going through their own stresses. Just don't make it mine! I did cave yesterday with the SIL, offered to get the truck inspected since he cant find his way out of a room full of doors. If he gets stopped and the truck gets impounded then I'm out $5K (he owes me) and he wont have work, so this is 45 minutes out of my life that in the end will make my life easier. I just can't imagine what it is like to go through life and just expect everyone to put something in your hand when you stick it out! It boggles my mind.
Still trying to find dad a part time job that is not beneath him just to get him busy and stop telling the family he is lonely and bored. How about you come out of your room and participate in conversations instead of telling stories. I guess I am to blame for that since I have given him the cold shoulder lately. It is the stress. So lets see who will help paint the house this week..... yip, no one but me guaranteed!
Letting the stress go, not having a cocktail at night so I sleep better (didn't help the past 2), trying to eat better........ its a long, long road......
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Peace love and harmony to all of you good folk out there. Special love to the Cap who just lost his son. God bless and keep us all.
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Oh my goodness. sorry for the doubles. thought it was loss. I hit the mouse it disapears and then I check its gone so I redo and I was kinda pissed to redo this is crazy! Im out.
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T I just typed a half chapter for a book and lost it. In a nutshell there is posibility that your father is narcissist and that is why you are easily use as a footstool. Also same for your daughter or possibly in the making. I suggest you hold your guns and (not litterally shoot all trespassers, of course these are imaginary guns:)!.

Your situation is serious. Stress Kills. Saying no and setting boundaries is hard and you feel very guilty at first. Guilt is a form of control narcissist people use. Listen to me the specialist now ha ha ha. But really I learned this from this site. You are in the right place to get help and sort this out where you can deal with it in your mind and put it in a perspective that you can deal with and then work on solutions.

My situation not so similar but similar. It wasnt until I start hurting from being treated worse and then like an outcast. Denial that I have ever done anything for anybody was like denying my whole existence. I had to learn to love and focus on my own well being because no one was going to do it. What I thought was love was being used. So when I was able to deal with that in my head it was on. Realizing the narcissim and understanding that was a giant step. I made all those baby steps with help of input from the site.

Bless your heart. Keep at it hold those guns. And keep putting it out it helps and decreases the stress.

I am routing for you. Its going to be a challenge, but image this going on and on and on.
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T I am getting a sense that your father is a narrcissist which is why you are such a push over. Not meant to insult. I see myself. But you have to realize that your are allowing them to do so. Your daughter also sounds like a spoiled brat a narcissist in the making and like attracts like so maybe the SIL is also a spoled brat.

I can say that this situation is going to continue until you get truly fed up. The stress can make you sick. Out side of prayer which also helps some as was exemplified in the story by NYC, This is the good place to sort out this mess and find the solution that helps you put it in the correct perspective and then pursue the solution. I wish you luck. It took me many many years to see what was right in front of my eyes. I was able to block things for a while. But then it got to a point where I had never done anything for anyone. It really hurt because that was a denial of my whole existence and relationship. That;s when it hit home.

I cried a lot, I felt guilty I am still working with it but I am no longer the footstool and scapegoat. You are not responsible for them and their happiness and well being they are grown up now. You are making the right decision and figuring out how to carry it through so you can live with yourself. Dont feel guilty. You kind of have to start thinking with the meism philosphy now. Its hard and will be but it gets better. Imagine this going on for years. It could eventually kill you. Stress kills. Bless your heart for the person you are. Just draw a line and stick to your guns and shoot anyone who crosses and tresspass on your bounaries (of course not litterally!) (imaginary guns) :)
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tgengine good for you. Stick to your guns.
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If children are old enough to get married, they need to pay tent SOMEWHERE.
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Way to go!
Remember, you're not the bad guy, you are the righteous guy. Be prepared for a lot of push back, until all those users learn to stand on their own they will constantly try to force a return to their old, comfortable existence... be strong!
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You go, tgengine. I imagine your wife is right there pulling with you.
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I had to laugh this AM because that is the only thing left that no one has destroyed. I spent the day doing service work yesterday. I come home dog tired because I was up at 3 AM, no sleep. I offered my SIL to get his truck inspected but he did it his way and now has a failed inspection. Mind you this is the truck I sold him and I have not received a dime in 6 months. Now he will most likely get a ticket tomorrow. I could have helped him like I did a month ago and I spent $200 in brakes on it. Can't fix stupid but what do I know. Then my daughter tells my wife we need to stay out of their business. OK, you live in my house rent free, you eat my food free, you drive both the cars I have paid for, your on my cell phone plan, we cook dinner 7 nights a week provide you laundry , heat, light A/C, cable and wifi and a laptop. We see what is going wrong and yet we are still the bad guys? After I got this news at midnight and could not sleep for an hour as I was so wound up, I got up this AM and said no more. No more cooking everyone dinner, no more offering to help with your dog in my house chewing my stuff, no more offering to fix something for you, take you to the range to have some fun, just no more. I made breakfast for my self this AM (I usually do a big Sunday AM bfast). I provide for everyone, Dad made a huge batch of cookies for church, uses all the baking items and foil and pans, is there any purchase of this stuff? No. It all stops today, everyone is on their own around here. The ultimatum to get a place in now on the table. Am I being mean? Yeah I guess so, I am pretty worked up and it has taken a long time to get there. I try to be the nice guy and help everyone but nothing comes back. Funny, they all moved in with me..... not the other way around..... and I am the bad guy. Maybe time to start living up to the moniker!
As the movie quote said ..."Sorry buddy it's John Wayne time, your on your own!" Thank for all the assistance, I will start to use the ideas, time for people to be on their own truly!
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Big steps, little steps - they all add up to a new pathway.

Many of us have been and still are on these journeys. Hang in there!
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I am listening to the comments, and I am trying....... thanks for all the comments, I do pay attention, just hard to get them into action.
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I'm trying here. There are little things that happen once in a while. The SIL actually took the trash to the dump again this week without being asked. That is the kind of things I am looking for do it with out being asked! He did TRY to cut the lawn last week but that was after a day of drinking, lets just say that wont happen again. He has been much better about the drinking during the week. Makes life much better here.
I came home from the 4th time at the grocery store this week and all the cookie fixings are on the counter. So dad is slowly making his way to make cookies. For church, now mind you I am paying for all of this since he wont go and get the food to make them! Glad I can afford to supply his good deeds.
I was at a meeting and a guy I know is looking for a part time furniture re-finisher he loves that kind of thing which would be a great part time thing for him to do. He did call but as before I am sure it will fall through. He just needs something to do. I do try to get them to do things, I just cant be the chief cook and bottle washer. I may just hang it up and go out to dinner tonight. Dinner is half prepped already (I usually prep dinner at breakfast).
Yesterday I woke my daughter because my wife thought she may be late for work, you'd think it was back in middle school around here, then I got an earful for doing it. I have to friggin tiptoe in my own house. so much for caring, if they are late so be it. (She wasn't late BTW) but how did I know. I have a busy weekend ahead, everyone is on their own this weekend, chef is off duty.....
I have helped my daughter to apply for a mortgage, we will see where that goes, again no reason to get a place when they have one......
My grocery bill has doubled, my electric bill doubled, everything but my income ......
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Hey hope things have gotten better? If not my first thiught is : its someone eles turn. Or its time for himvto move into a Assited Living. Its hard eniugh to work and take care of him let alonecdeal w all that difunction. Let it go! Easier said then done. Better to have health then all that unhealthy behavior. You can change but you cantvchange them or him right?
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Hey hope things have gotten better? If not my first thiught is : its someone eles turn. Or its time for himvto move into a Assited Living. Its hard eniugh to work and take care of him let alonecdeal w all that difunction. Let it go! Easier said then done. Better to have health then all that unhealthy behavior. You can change but you cantvchange them or him right?
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This has been a complaint I had with my ex. No..he really wasn't capable of seeing what needed doing. What I resented was the automatic assumption that is was MY job to do everything. Why was I asking him? Why not him asking me?
Since then I moved passed it. Yeah..it is the way it is...right or wrong
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Tg, last night, I came home to a sink full of dirty dishes. I had my granson with me and i needed to make dinner. Because of an honest misunderstanding about a text, my husband had not turned on the pot of water for pasta. And there were dishes in the sink!

So I said to my husband, "honey, there are dishes in the sink. I can't dump the pasta with the sink full. Could you do the dishes?". And ao he did them. Should he have boticed when he came home? Should he do them automatically? That would be nice. And sometimes he does. But when he doesn't, I ask him.

Are you asking anyone to do anything? Or are you just assuming that everyone knows what needs to be done?

Look, there's no hole in the front of your head that allows people to read your thoughts. Yes, folks SHOULD know. But often they don't.
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Daughter's remark was purest, solid gold chutzpah! The only way it could have been any more breathtaking would be if it had come from Dad.

Needs to go to church to find out why so stressed, hmmm? Well now, let's see if we can figure it out right here in the kitchen...
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As a reminder, I see EXCELLENT responses from the posters. Please listen to them. If not, you're going to reach a point that some of us including me are going to wonder if it's worth even bothering b/c nothing will change.

I say this bluntly because I think it's time to be blunt.
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"Thus my wife had to clean it up making her and my daughter both late for work"

NO, she doesn't have to clean up after anyone! Doing so just reinforces that your freeloading relatives can continue to do what they want and be irresponsible.

"This is the way he functions."

Okay, you've got a good handle on his patterns of behavior, he needs to change. If you were an employer with staff, would you tolerate such behavior? If you were an employee and displayed lack of consideration and irresponsibility, wouldn't you have been called in for counseling?

I understand that work situations are different but I think there are analogies in terms of how much one person can or should tolerate.

"My daughter made a comment that I need to go to church more to find out why I am so angry. I guess it is becoming apparent that I am stressed. "

I can't even describe how offensive and disrespectful I find this remark. She needs to be given an ultimatum - find someplace else to live in a month or so, and get back on her own feet. I might have been tempted to counter with a remark that she needs to get psychiatric help to determine why she's unable to grow up and accept responsibility for her own life.

BTW, are you charging her rent? If not, you should be. And charge boarding fees for the dogs.

"Things to work on this week.... reduce stress..... let others cook..... yeah that's not going to happen. 1 lazy parent, 1 lazy son in law (don't get me started on that one)... house full....
Let people be responsible for themselves....... whoo boy..... Ill give it a try.... "

TG, I know this is overwhelming. A lot of us have been faced with so many things and problems coming at us from all directions. It often seems as if problems have no solution. But work on them one at a time, and think positively, in terms of solutions.

But above all, remember that you are not a doormat. If you think like one you'll be treated like one.

What's the worse situation? your freeloading daughter, your noncompliant contrary father? Pick the worst problem, spend some time alone with your wife and develop a plan. Then implement it.

And BTW, I don't believe that your father needs to meet any qualifications of limitation to stay in a respite facility. Don't let these negative perceptions stop you.

You're heading for a breakdown, physical or otherwise, but only you can change the direction of your path.
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Tg, your daughter commenting that you need to explore the source of your anger shows a total obliviousness to the role she and your SIL play in your increasing stress. she and SIL are finding it very comfortable to revert back to teenage mode of doing their thing with someone else taking care of them. They have no reason that make a change....you've made being a grownup easy for them.

My unsolicited advice is you give them a very short deadline to find and get into their own apartment. Explain that this was a temporary arrangement, that you have your hands full and are unable to continue this way. I get that it's optimal own ones own home, but think back....most of us didn't live with our parents to save for our first home. We rented, it took longer but we got there, It's not reasonable for them to burden you with two more adults ( including an alcoholic) and a dog. Maybe your wife could have a chat with your daughter and take this off of you.
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The disrespect Mrs. TG puts up with is astounding and frankly I'm amazed she's still in the mix. I feel sorry for her. She has a jerk for a FIL. Making matters worse, her husband makes excuses for his dad and the dogs. I hope she finds happiness doing something much more worthwhile than cleaning up all their messes.
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I understand where you are coming from. My Dad moved in with us last November, we had offered for him to move in with us 2 years ago, he finally made the decision last september. It has been very tough on us, very demeaning to me. The stress got to be so bad for me we had to move him into assisted living. My siblings realize how difficult he can be. He is a sweet person but not to his family. He his not happy he had to go to assisted living and is telling people that I am sick and once I am better he can move back in with me, he fails to tell them that he is the reason I am on the verge of a nervous breakdown. I found out he is telling people at the assisted living he was yanked out of his house, which isn't true. From talking to others this is common behavior for them, they lash out at the ones closest to them.
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Oi. About the ice cream.

Just that isolated example, not the rest - your daughter is really taking the piss, btw, but I'll come back to that.

Just on the ice cream, there is a telling problem there that says to me that your dad has got seriously on your normally rock-steady nerves. He can't do right for doing wrong, can he? If he leaves his stuff plonk in the middle of the shelf, it's in the way. If he tucks it out of sight, he's hiding it. Where DO you want him to keep his personal goodies?

If my mother made her stinky-sweet syrupy microwave porridge for herself, I hated the smell of it. If she waited for me to do it for her properly, I groused about the chore. At that point, before she was really needing full-time care, she was driving me round the bend. But now I can admit that I was being completely unfair.

So I think this is symptomatic of too close proximity, which needs a different and stronger set of ground rules.

And he's got to clean up his own dog's pee, for a start. Your wife or you must hand him the mop and stand over him 'til it's done.
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God Will Save Me!

A terrible storm came into a town and local officials sent out an emergency warning that the riverbanks would soon overflow and flood the nearby homes. They ordered everyone in the town to evacuate immediately.

A faithful Christian man heard the warning and decided to stay, saying to himself, “I will trust God and if I am in danger, then God will send a divine miracle to save me.”

The neighbors came by his house and said to him, “We’re leaving and there is room for you in our car, please come with us!” But the man declined. “I have faith that God will save me.”

As the man stood on his porch watching the water rise up the steps, a man in a canoe paddled by and called to him, “Hurry and come into my canoe, the waters are rising quickly!” But the man again said, “No thanks, God will save me.”

The floodwaters rose higher pouring water into his living room and the man had to retreat to the second floor. A police motorboat came by and saw him at the window. “We will come up and rescue you!” they shouted. But the man refused, waving them off saying, “Use your time to save someone else! I have faith that God will save me!”

The flood waters rose higher and higher and the man had to climb up to his rooftop.

A helicopter spotted him and dropped a rope ladder. A rescue officer came down the ladder and pleaded with the man, "Grab my hand and I will pull you up!" But the man STILL refused, folding his arms tightly to his body. “No thank you! God will save me!”

Shortly after, the house broke up and the floodwaters swept the man away and he drowned.

When in Heaven, the man stood before God and asked, “I put all of my faith in You. Why didn’t You come and save me?”

And God said, “Son, I sent you a warning. I sent you a car. I sent you a canoe. I sent you a motorboat. I sent you a helicopter. What more were you looking for?”
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