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My mother and her sister both are terrified of Nursing homes. My mother is nearly 85 and when I can get her assets in order, I need to put her in a nursing home. Problem is, she still knows me, but doesn't recognize she is home, that my dad (her husband) has been dead nearly 16 years and her mama's been dead around ten years. She has difficulty speaking a complete sentence and identifying things, like her cigarette lighter. She can't drive, cook, or be trusted to take her meds correctly. BUT, legally, you can't put anyone in a nursing home who doesn't want to go. It's a good law, but not always the best thing for a person like my mother. I've been caring for her six years now and have finally come to terms with the fact she'd be better off and I would too if she were in a nursing home. How can I get her admitted when the time comes if she refuses? I've heard if she went into the hospital, I could refuse to take her back to her home since there's nobody to care for her. As for my aunt, she's a little more coherent than mama, but cannot drive to get groceries or her meds. She lives alone and her daughters have health issues of their own and can no longer take care of her, but she refuses to accept this and won't go to a nursing home. She's fallen several times and had to lay there till she could (painfully) get to a phone and call for help. But my aunt knows where she is and what day it is, etc. She is just too stuborn to go to a nursing home, believing it's her daughters' moral obligation to care for her, no matter how exhausted, overwhelmed or ill they are. But before their mother, I'm more concerned about how to get my own mother into a nursing home. She somehow can remember she can't be forced to go. We live in Texas. I know laws vary from state to state. I guess my main question is, if a person poses a threat to themselves, can't care for themselves, is there a legal way to have them commited to a nursing home? Hope I don't sound like I don't love her because I do.

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Thank you for your response.

We live in Canada and I'm aware of all help is available already, of course, and arranged help to come to our home where I live with my husband and I'm ready to transfer it to my mother's place. However, she keeps telling me that she is not ready yet and does not give the date when she will be ready. Today, I did not have a PSW for my Grandma and could not live her at home, I brought her to my mom's until 4 p.m when I'm done with work (was a surprise for her!) and she yelled at me said all nasty things she could about me and my husband but except grandma for the day. I will keep working on it, thank you for your input.

violinist
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So are you living in the States, Violinist?

The thing is, the way it looks to an outsider, you kind of can't have it both ways. You have gathered together a good deal of reasonably current information on BPD, you have a psychologist and a psychiatrist, a clear assessment of the kind of dynamics you're dealing with. It's not like you're stuck minding the cattle out on the steppe, is it.

But, so, in that case, you are equally free to consult the social and cultural norms of the time and place where you are living *now*. Ask around! Find out what help might be appropriate and available for your grandmother. Enlist allies! I don't care how thumpingly clear your mother's BPD is, it still doesn't put her in charge of your life - unless you let it.
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Yes, of course, it is not just a "culture" (in our case, this is Russian). My mother has BPD (borderline personality disorder) and manipulates the whole family and our lives as she wants. She does not know, of course, that she has it, but, in order, for me to cope, I had to see a psychologist and a psychiatrist, who confirmed that. So far, no one in our family was able to establish boundaries with her.

But... thank you so much for taking the time to communicate your thoughts as it helps me to validate my own thoughts and feelings.

violinist
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Yes, everyone does have a choice. But sometimes all of the available choices are unpleasant.

Violinist, to paraphrase the great Samuel Goldwyn, a Power of Attorney that is not written is not worth the paper it is not written on.

When you say "this is not in our culture"... I value and respect the importance of a person's own culture to him or her. However. I do not know of any cultures whose traditions set out to be inflexible, or set out to prevent people from leading their lives. And I certainly don't know of any cultures which insist on a child's obligations to his or her parents and grandparents but at the same time disregard a wife's obligations to her husband.

Could you say a little more about what your situation is and what your ideal solution might be?
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Everyone has a CHOICE!!
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My mother has the power of attorney (not written though) and is against nursing homes as this is not in our culture. I really have no choice!

Thank you
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Oh darling girl! - Violinist, if you can't cope with your grandma (too right, I bet you can't!) then what makes you think your mother can, or will ever volunteer to?

Contact your local social services and get advice. Your grandmother needs more help than can be provided in most families, it's time to start looking for a facility and researching the best way to fund it.

Does your mother have power of attorney for your grandmother, or anything like that?
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My husband and I were taking care of my Grandma (now 92 y.o) for more then 10 years on and off to help my mother and step father to give them a break. Now, grandma has been leaving with us for 7 months and she has a dementia. She requires 24 hrs care. We both work full time and simply cannot do this any longer. It started to affect our relationship to the point that my husband shows signs of severe anger. The problem is my BPD mother won't take her back gives us ultimatums that she will tell us when she is ready. My marriage is falling apart!

Please help!
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Its a hard thing, and I will keep you all in my prayers.
My Mom lives with me and has for 4 years. I am exhausted most of the time, and do my best with God's help.
We take her everywhere we go. We took her on a 10 day road trip to Statue of Liberty and back. Difficult, but she had a great time. We are planning another trip this year Lord willing, and we will take her with us.
It is a difficult season of life, when you are the one providing care for parents. But we will be there one day as well. This is not a judgement on anyones choices, but I will never put my Mom in a nursing home. I have worked in several in my life and visit people often who are in them, I just will do whatever I can to prevent that. There are always answers, if we look hard enough.
Its tough I know and not everyone is the same, do your best, pray for wisdom in the matter.
Best wishes to you all, and may God help you in your season.
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Wow this topic is hitting me so hard at the moment. However my mom came from a skilled nursing home back home with me. I selfishly wanted to help her out and to be with her more, and ease the financial burden on her and my end. It was a big mistake on my part I can see that she needs way more than I can do alone even with in home agency care. Her sleep patterns are so not normal! Funny what love and wanting to help blindly without doctor bothering to even call and talk to me about the complexity of her needs. Of course, mom is saying she can do stuff. Well she cant and I can see she is getting worse she refusing to get out of her wheelchair to use her walker. But anyway, life is so very hard and I cant wait to see the nurse tomorrow so I can give her some idea what its like. even though mom will be mad at me for even talking to her! Love mom, but not her dementia! It made her use me to get her way! Been her caregiver for years before this long death sentence was diagnosed, I was wrong to bring her out or falling for her wanting to come home. Sorry for ranting or something close to it.
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Same boat. Taking care of mom in my home for 7 years... I’m so tired. And I want to travel and see my own kids who live out of state. My mom can’t tell you what year it is, who is president nor does she know her own address. I take care of all her needs. Cooking cleaning laundry errands meds etc... I drove her to look at facilities today. She refused to get out of the car, saying I cannot just dump her off and she wants to stay with me. I’m ridden with guilt and hate to give up... but I’m tired. I want to live before my golden years are gone. I have my brother and his wife living with me, but they haven’t seemed to want to spend any time with her. I’m sure she is lonely just sitting there all day long... I wish I had answers for you... but I too am searching for strength to do what needs to be done.
I heard that if they can’t answer those 3 questions that they can be committed. Not sure if it applies in all states.
1. What is the year?
2. Who is president?
3 where do you live
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Big problem. My mother is mean, combative, screams and expects my sister to take care of her - no agency will come to the condo any longer and my sister cannot find any facility that will take her. My sister and I are tired of dealing with the abuse and she's terrible at age 86 and drinks every night by herself. What in the world can we do?
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BY MARLO SOLLITTO
The writing is on the wall: Your parent is no longer safe living at home. Maybe they've started fires by forgetting to turn off the stove. Perhaps they've had several major falls that have landed them in the hospital. Or they could be hoarding, with a house packed so full that emergency personnel would not be able to enter, or the elder not be able to exit in an emergency. Whatever the individual circumstances you face, your loved one refuses to even consider moving to an assisted living facility. You've tried to reason with them, had the talk about senior communities, tried to get them to tour local communities, begged, pleaded and bribed. Nothing works.

What's a caregiver to do when they believe at best grievous harm or at worst death is an imminent possibility if their parent continues living at home? If you have a guardianship you can force someone to move. However, that is the only way to make an elder move from their home. Those without guardianship face a much different scenario.

It's not an easy – or inexpensive process, according to Susan B. Geffen, an elder law attorney, gerontologist and author of "Take That Nursing Home and Shove it!" The courts must get involved in a costly and sometimes highly contentious guardianship proceeding in which someone, a guardian (or conservator) can dictate where an individual will live. In some cases, a family member will initiate this proceeding. Or the county's adult protective services, part of the social services in the county where you live will petition the court. This typically happens when a neighbor or concerned acquaintance reports a perceived danger. Many times, the older adult will not let the social worker or investigator in the door.

"From a legal standpoint, judges value the independence of an individual, including older adults," Geffen says. "The courts will bend over backwards to make sure that these rights are not trammeled even if some of the adult's decisions are colorful."

If the older cognitively impaired adult has moments of lucidity and can state what they want, the judge will usually rule that they can remain at home and order the appointed guardian to make sure that appropriate systems such as in home care and home modifications are in place.

Why do the courts take this stance? Geffen explains it is in line with the ruling a 1999 U.S. Supreme Court decision that ruled that unnecessary "institutionalization" of people with disabilities is a type of discrimination prohibited by the Americans with Disabilities Act (ADA). According to Geffen, this decision has become shorthand for the principle that institutionalization (including assisted living) should be a last resort for people who need long-term services and support.

Some people have the misconception that with a financial power of attorney (POA) or healthcare POA, they will have the authority to force their parent to move. That is not the case. "No document gives the caregiver that authority." There are certain things you can and can't do with POA. These documents only give someone the power to "be the impaired person's voice for legal, financial or health care matters," Geffen says.

Any attempt to take over the rights of an individual is costly and time-consuming and the process may not have a favorable outcome for the caregiver (in legal terms, known as the petitioner). Judges, lawyers, psychologists, neuropsychiatrists and Adult Protective Services are often involved. The court assigns an independent attorney to represent the elder. The petitioner is responsible for paying the filing fee and costs of bringing the suit. One example of "costs" would be payment of doctor's expenses if a medical, neurological or psychological evaluation of the elder is necessary https://www.agingcare.com/articles/legally-force-move-to-assisted-living-155888.htm this could help
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Dear Brooke, My heart goes out to you. Your Mom for sure needs to speak to a Social Worker and an attorney superbad. And since you are the grand-dghter, I think it would be best to go along with your mom to the attorney. I agree, many people have declined to such a point that they cannot see what the big problem is. Like the mutiple falls, hoarding, caring for themselves properly, the driving. Oh Lord, I could pretty much tell the same things you have written. In Texas, I was told by a social worker to go to the local court-house and apply for a mental/health warrant, when the judge signs off on it, the police will go out and take them willingly or not to a place for care. I highly suggest Brooke that you distance yourself from all this, You have went above and beyond any moral or normal care for your relatives. To continue on with this only threatens your own immediate family. I know all to well the feelings of guilt, pain,anger, disgust, fear, mental anguish, mental depression and oh so many other issues. I've been there. I recommend next payday take the money you give to them to go toward an attorney. As for your family members tell them that since they think that they can care for themselves that they will need to do just that. Yes, I know this is so very very difficult but it is clear that they need more help than you, your husband or your mother can deal with. It is way time that local authorities be made aware of this situation. If someone falls, call the fire dept and let them handle it. No matter how many times the fire dept has to go out to their home. That way, these things are documented. Also call Adult Protective Services and plead your case to them. They will go out and investigate. For all concerned, the best out come would be for them to be placed in a nursing home or some form of care. I ask God to meet you and all your families needs and grant you peace.
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Yep! Many older people do not want to be shoved into a nursing home. It's better to keep them at home if at all possible or nearby, and have outside help come in and tend to their needs.
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wizer, you made a good point. Step in too soon and you get stepped ON
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This can be a very difficult issue. I know a family who tried to push their father into a nursing home. He was well off financially, and didn't want to start paying $9K a month to be in a place he didn't want to be in to begin with! The family tried several approaches and maneuvers, but the old man hired an attorney and fought them all tooth and nail! Unfortunately, the end result was that the old man became alienated from the entire family and took everyone out of his will. When he finally passed, he left his entire $5+ million dollar estate to charity!
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Does the VA's in Ohio, have a place for veterans of ww11, world war, have places where Veterans age 89 years, can live out their lives in peace and comfort, right at their local VA, we live in Jackson, Ohio, and Chillocothe , Ohio, VA, doctors see my brother, but we would like to see him live in a facility where he can be with other Veterans his age. He has recently been told he has cancer, and he is going down hill fast. , but we want him in a VA to live close to us, where we can visit all we want. His daughters live out of town, and his one daughter, takes care of her disabled Veteran husband full time, I am his sister, and I am elderly to.
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Your mother's care contract is with the nursing home. Therefore it is their responsibility to sort out her day-to-day requirements; and it is up to them to accommodate her addiction. I'm startled to read that they think calling up family members to escort her out of the building for a cigarette is a solution; and in your place (I'm a smoker myself, by the way, I'm not unsympathetic to your mother) I would politely decline to do it. Really, I don't think you should. It isn't reasonable or practical, and they're just passing *their* problem back to *you.*

The very worst that can happen is that the NH refuses to assist, she is therefore obliged to stop smoking, and she's furious with everyone about it. And then? Well, then…

1. The attending PCP can be asked to assist with nicotine patches and so on.
2. She can look for another NH, one with less inflexible policies about their staff's duties.
3. She can divert herself by investigating what human rights legislation she might be able to act on; or you can do that on her behalf if you feel so inclined.

I'm sorry for your mother, and I'm sorry that you're getting the fallout about it. But the key thing to remember is that neither the addiction nor the solution is your problem - do your best to ignore it as blithely as possible.

Did they make her any foolish promises before she was admitted, along the lines of 'we're here to make you feel at home and you can live your life as you always have' kind of thing?
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How does one deal with a parent in a nursing home who is addicted to cigarettes and is becoming more and more agitated that her family cannot be there to take her out for a cig whenever she wants? We are called sometimes in the evening to come take her out. Is there anyone who has dealt with this and who has come to some kind of resolve ?
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My mother had a two stokes a heart attack and is not able to drive after 2pm as her doctor told her but she dose any way she never cooks far her self I have tryed taking care of her but she want let me at night time she take her med.she about to fall down she is not able to stay by her self what do I need to do to put her some where
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Gonzojane, was your aunt delirious? Hysterical? Did the police need to subdue her for safety reasons? Did you witness this? Did you hear this from your aunt? I'd like to hear the answers to Babalou's questions, too.

In any case, hearing about this or seeing it must have been very traumatic for you. Hugs!
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I'm glad to have read these posts as I'm a 62-year-old widow with one son who is 25 and lives 2000 miles away. I have no other family. While I'm in great health, I am aging and I have decided to not share anything about my health with my son. If I'm ill in any way, I do not tell him a word. I have also not given him my Power of Attorney Medical or legal.

I closed my business and took care of my husband for 2 years when he was in Hospice here at home. I know the work involved and also the feeling of love that came from the difficult job of caring for my dying best friend. Even though I thought I'd go crazy at the load I was caring, I was so happy to be able to give him the gift of my love and care for him in his dark days. And yes, he was in so much pain and agony as he died from cancer that it took my breath away.

So, I know.

As a result of what I read here by the daughter and the other many posts from other "children," I have concluded that the best thing to do in my alone situation is to respect my son's busy life as a programmer -- he's single and oh so happy with his busy life -- and to not share with him anything that will burden him. I also have zero desire for him to be writing to one of these boards about his mum or any desire for him to make decisions about my care.

We have been aging and dying for millions of years -- years that were long before the existence of nursing homes. It's not pretty but dying is not a pretty business. It happens though to each of us. Instead, I have learned enough to know how to go when the time comes.

Thank you for sharing your thoughts here. You helped me know that I'm doing what is right for my boy.
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What were the circumstances under which this occurred ? How did you hear of it?
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Help! My elderly 80+ year old aunt 100 pounds was put to the ground and handcuffed by police and taken into a nursing home. We are bringing her home with us. Has anyone heard of such a thing!!!!!
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My mother's transition happened June 1, 2015. Of course her geriatric doctors feel this is the best place for her; plus the staff at her facility is the best. I visited her today and she didn't even know me or when she had arrived but enjoyed our visit, she's making new friends and loves the activities. I am at peace with myself that I was able to do for my other siblings what they couldn't do for my mother. She is close by and I can pop in unannounced any time of the day; and I will. I start my new job next week and feel good that as spoken person for my siblings I have done a good job in seeing that our mother is well taken care of by medical professional caregivers :)
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OH SORRY ROSIE! I am new here. I just saw the date on your post. I wouldn't have posted my previous comment. But if you read this, can you update us and tell us how they are now and if any changes have happened?
Bless you
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Rosie, there are some states and even some counties that will agree to have a capacity assessment test done by a Dr., and if they fail that test and are no longer safe to live on their own, and if the family is not able to care for them physically, emotionally or financially, they will be directed to a nursing home. Yes it's hard to make them go when they don't want to. I'm so sorry for all of us who have to go through it. Then we have to help them adapt to being there. Still trying to find counseling or help with that. Ask around and see if your county or state can demand that they get nursing home care if they are not able to function on their own.
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It is helpful, MckTsh. The problem is, often the parent (even with dementia) is not legally incompetent, and in that case, the document does not give the medical proxy to legal right to make the medical decisions. I hope this works out fine for you! Is your mother in a nursing home now? How did it go for you?
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My mother is 86 soon to be 87 in August. She has stage 6 Dementia/Alzheimer's and can no longer make decisions or take care of her daily hygiene. She has been in my home for over 6 months but her lack of sleep is keeping everyone awake and the able need to go to work or get up to take care of her. When a person so distrups a household so badly that it makes the caregivers sick, it is time to remove them to a nursing home where trained medical personnel can take care of them. What I did that I read here that most of you didn't is I secured a Durable Medical Power of Attorney. This means I can make medical decisions having to do with her medical care. If your parents are insisting that they can still care for themselves, have them sign one of these forms in front of a notary public and keep it safe till needed. You can also get a Durable Financial Power of Attorney to be able to take care of your loved ones banking and finances. Do some research online and download a form and get it done immediately. I hope this helps :)
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