Follow
Share

This is too dangerous. DNRs and making euthanasia legal are easy ways to get rid of patients and make the medical staffs job easy. The patients pay with their lives or can be damaged from the strong sedatives. The staff can medicate patients into a coma and get away with it by telling the family that the elder person is deteriorating from dementia instead of the drugs. I have actually seen the staff yell out DNR as they continue to drug the patient every few minutes even if this patient is already in a drug induced coma. Anyone with a DNR should get it taken off especially if it is and elder person.

Find Care & Housing
Hi Flowgo,
This is controversial because many people feel it's their right to decide if they want to be kept alive artificially after their body naturally starts to shut down. Many are in horrible pain and are medicated for that by choice.
You are right that this practice can be abused, but in most cases the patient's wishes are followed. However, the very fact that a DNR can be abused is what bothers some people. The controversy will likely always be around, as nearly any practice can be abused. Still, DNR is a choice, and people who don't want it don't need to have it on their record.
As for euthanasia, that's not likely to become legal for a long time, if ever. The topic will come up in politics because a few vocal people believe in the practice, however, most do not, even if they believe in choices for themselves. I don't think you have much to worry about there.
There is always room for discussion on these issues, but in the end families should talk at length with their elders long before an elder becomes ill. Then families know better what the elder would want done (or not done) in the end stages.
Thank you for being such a caring person,
Carol
Helpful Answer (3)
Reply to Carol Bradley Bursack
Report

I have personally selected a living will with the DNA option, because I want the choice not to keep my body alive when there is no life left. I had a very ill sister, who spent her last years in a nursing home, except she was in the hospital half the time with complications from the tubes and meds that were keeping her body going. She insisted on no DNR, and her wishes were honored to the point where they spent 20 minutes bringing her back from cardiac arrest and succeeded. Then she was a brain dead person living in a very sick body. Her choices cost the government more than a million dollars; her last hospital stay was more than $155,000. All for nothing. She was never going to get better. I can't, personally, do that to my family and so a DNR, should I need it, is right for me.
Helpful Answer (16)
Reply to JaneB
Report

flowgo, you sound very angry, and like you have specific cases in mind. If you have evidence of murder, surely you have/are going to the police with it.

My husband has DNR in his file. He has been hospitalized twice since then and I saw absolutely no evidence of poor practices (other than hospitals are not equipped to handle dementia patients -- with or without DNR.)

My fear is that a hospital with particular religous affiliation might not honor the DNR decision. I have talked to the hospital administrators of the places that would most likely treat my husband to be reassured on this point.

All vulnerable adults (which is just about every adult in a hospital, at least for the duration of their illness) needs an alert and smart advocate, to see that the patient's wishes are honored.

I suggest that a hospital that is intent on murdering patients for their convenience would finds ways to do it with or without DNR paperwork. If such hospitals exist, it would take more than banning DNRs to stop them. (But the hospitals would make more money by prolonging life, so I'm not sure what the motivation would be. Hmmm.)

I am glad you have the right to not have DNR in your medical file. I am glad I have the right to have it. It is a very personal decision and I would hate to see it legislated.
Helpful Answer (16)
Reply to jeannegibbs
Report

flowgo, I respectfully disagree. There comes a point where keeping the body working just doesn't serve the patient as a person. It wasn't that long ago that medicine couldn't do that, and people would never have made it as long as they now do. A DNR, especially for someone with a terminal illness, spares everyone the emotional and financial cost of prolonging the inevitable. .
Two days ago, we had a vet come to the house to put down our cat, who had an untreatable spinal tumor and who was increasingly miserable and could no longer walk or excrete waste. We can do that for a pet, but we can't do it in cases where prolonging physical life is causing true heartache for everyone involved...MOST ESPECIALLY THE PATIENT.
You are free to hold your own views. Please honor that others see things differently, and have good reason to.
Helpful Answer (13)
Reply to JaneB
Report

A DNR (Do Not Resuscitate) and/or POLST (Physician Order for Life Sustaining Treatment) is for the PATIENT to sign, not the family. It is a statement of what you want done and what you don't want done.

It is NOBODY'S business what a person does with THEIR OWN life at the end stages. If I've got cancer and am in great pain, I'm going to sign a DNR and POLST so I don't suffer any longer than I have to. In most terminal diseases, the person themselves should be able to dictate what treatment they want to receive or refuse.

Many people sign THEMSELVES into hospice. That is THEIR choice. They know that hospice uses Morphine and Ativan, they agree to that and it is NO ONE ELSE'S business
what they do with their end of life plans. You also have the right to refuse medications at any time. To forcefully make a patient take a medicine is battery (like assault and battery).

When one group starts dictating what others should and shouldn't do, we no longer have individual rights, which is a violation of the constitution.

Profile, I applaud your right to stand against euthanasia, mercy killing, abortion, hospice, assisted suicide or any other cause you choose.
But you HAVE to let other people decide for themselves. It's not YOUR place to tell them what to do. You only have jurisdiction over your OWN life.

Can we please leave it that way?


Morgan,
So you are saying that "the greatest generation" is being MURDERED by "the baby boomers" (their OWN children) for convenience sake? Holy Moly, you must be out of your mind! Have you read this board? It is FILLED with those of us who are taking care of our parents, the best way we can, sacrificing home, marriage, money and health, in the process. As are 90% of other baby boomers around our country.

Yes, there may be a small percentage who don't want or can't have the responsibility of caregiving for reasons that range from laziness to the baby boomer being a victim of the parent's verbal, emotional and physical/sexual abuse. So shame on the lazy kid but what about the abused adult child. This board has many posts from them. It would be in their best interest not be around their parent. If there are no other family members, the state will be their guardian.
What about those baby boomers that are caring for others-maybe a MIL and a disabled child in the same house? Or those who are disabled (mentally or physically) themselves?
WHO ARE YOU TO DETERMINE WHO IS "BAD" FOR NOT TAKING CARE OF THEIR PARENTS? I suggest you find out what is the REASON that every adult child can't take care of their folks before you point your finger.

Now-My Pet Peeve;
As for "the greatest generation" (WW2 vets), ALL PEOPLE who have served their country and endured hardships and loss, pain and suffering, trauma and torture, potentially giving their lives for the United States of America, ARE THE GREATEST. One age group only doesn't deserve that distinction. Heroes are any age, from any generation. God bless the KIA's and MIA's from ALL wars and conflicts, for fighting on our behalf for our freedom. They ALL are true heroes.
Helpful Answer (13)
Reply to SueC1957
Report

Damita, be careful about drawing conclusions with a broad brush. The greatest generation suffered the Depression as children, not the parents struggling to house and fed the family. They experienced a huge economic jump, with secure jobs and lived to see nice pensions and retirements. Their parents often passed before the GG's had retired, and many GG's never had to do hands on care of their parents. Now the GG's are living into their 90's, and the "spoiled boomers" have been caring for parents and children. The "spoiled" boomers are 70 years olds with health problems of their own. And the boomers are dealing with spoiled GG's who've had lovely retirements and expect the boomers to keep their lives as they always were.  The boomers, however, are using their retirements not to take cruises, but care for parents. In many cases, it is the GG's who are selfish to the core, not the exhausted boomers.
Helpful Answer (13)
Reply to Linda22
Report

Try this on for size. You have a disease that is going to kill you some day. You have been bed ridden for over ten years. You have no ability to do anything. You can't control your bowels or bladder. You cannot eat. You cannot swallow. You have a breathing contraption helping you breathe. You have a food tube inserted into your stomach. You have not tasted food for years. Your husband and oldest son have passed away while you have been in bed. Your oldest child living within 200 miles with two young children and the youngest living over 300 miles away. None of your old friends have ever visited you. You are hooked up to more machines than a science fiction movie. If you need help, you have to try and blow into a tube stuck into your mouth 24/7. You get fifty dollars a month for personal item, such a bath soap and you get bathed once a week. You cannot change the channel on the tv and you have a room mate.
You were told that you would only live for five years after diagnosis, and that was nearly fifteen years ago.
Oh and to communicate you have the use of only one eye to answer yes or no.
How long would you want to live/exist like that?
Now what was that about a DNR?
Helpful Answer (11)
Reply to OldSailor
Report

If the patient died five years ago, as in flowgo's situation, and you are still engulfed in anger and despair, please get some medications for a deep and darkening depression. Get some expert counseling for a grief that has trapped you in a deep dark place. You want to live a better life.
Helpful Answer (10)
Reply to pamstegma
Report

DNR stands for DO NOT RESUSCITATE and that means if you should stop breathing or your heart would quit beating no one will attempt to revive you. It does not mean that you will not be cared for nor does it mean that a potentially treatable disease won't be treated.
I have been an RN for years and the kindest thing I've seen happen in the medical world are DNR orders. When I first became a nurse we did not have DNR orders. We had to try and save everybody! I remember old folks coming from the nursing homes, bedridden from multiple strokes and we'd be sticking IVs in them and tubes in every orifice they had and when they coded we'd code them and for what reason? So the could go back to the nursing home and do it all again next week. It was horrible, it was cruel. I remember thinking "we're kinder to our dogs than we are to these people".
Death no matter how it comes is ugly. There is no dignity in it. It's hard to die and hard to watch a loved one pass on as their body shuts down.
I'm sorry you and your family had a negative experience. You don't have to be a DNR pt, that is your right. But don't you dare try to take my DNR choice away from me or my family!!!!
Helpful Answer (10)
Reply to Nojoy3
Report

I expect that if everyone ignored this thread MDWrig would soon get tired of talking to no one.
Helpful Answer (10)
Reply to cwillie
Report

See All Answers