Hospice Murder

CWillie, you’re right!

This may be a little off topic, but I love stories about flash mobs....


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The Philippines has one of the longest holiday seasons in the world, starting in September and ending around January 9. Christmas plays, parties, and decorations are in full swing throughout these months, and there are nine night Masses (known as Simbang Gabi) leading up to Christmas Day.


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You put your antlers in. You put your antlers out.
You put you antlers in and you shake them all about.
You do the Reindeer Pokey and you turn yourself around.
That’s what it’s all about!
You put your hooves in….
You put your red nose in….
You put your fluffy tail in…

You put your antlers in. You put your antlers out.
You put you antlers in and you shake them all about.
You do the Reindeer Pokey and you turn yourself around.
That’s what it’s all about!
You put your hooves in….
You put your red nose in….
You put your fluffy tail in…

Veronica your comments as an insightful, educated & responsible contributor are totally appreciated. Many of us are most grateful to the empathetic, genuine caring & wonderful care our loved ones have received in a Hospice. Thank you for posting such positive comments. Prolife needs to do exactly as you have said...go to the Police, State Licensing Board or the Coroner. Prolife is being disrespectful to others on this site who do not see things “her way” and in fact makes unwarranted accusations to other Writers. I don’t believe this site is for that purpose. She is not addressing the audience she appears to want to preach to on a Blog site, especially with the inflammatory & unwarranted comments about others ie: “heroine with a syringe.” Nazis? Hitler? This has become a totally uncontrolled discussion. Administrators will hopefully take her toxic comments into consideration & remove her from this site.

Veronica, thanks for the insightful and frank assessment and reminder to someone who doesn't seem to have a clue what hospice is for. Your post reminded me of the first rehab center in my caring experience, and this was rehab, not hospice.

I'll never forget the catatonic stares of people sitting in halls, waiting for therapy, to rehab them for what? More depression, more limited lives sitting in wheelchairs waiting to die? Or people unable to speak, or unable to see, again just waiting to die.

Those catatonic faces will haunt me whenever I think of how sad and pathetic those poor souls were.

That was just rehab; it wasn't even hospice....yet.

Kudos to you for telling it like it is to someone who doesn't have a clue and is just a troublemaker.

Veronica, hear, hear! If I could have given you 100 likes for that post I would have. You must have been a fly on the wall at my Mom's nursing home. What a depressing place. If I ever end up at a place like that, give me a gun and I'll shoot myself. (that is if I still have the wherewithal to do it)

Profile, everything Veronica just said............but let me add, ever since you started this rhetoric I have been reliving my Mom's dying moments. Thx to you, I've had these images going through my head for the last three days. So, again thx for that.

Why do I keep coming back here and reading you may ask. You know how when you have a nagging toothache and it hurts even more when you touch it but for some reason you keep doing it? There's that..........but also I'm wondering why the admin. haven't cut you off at the pass yet.

Profile I was a Hospice RN for 10 years. And yes I did administer large doses of Morphine and yes the patients did die. But at the time they were screaming in pain while the family cried at the bedside beging me to give them more. A Hospice nurse can only give what the Dr has ordered (That is if she wants to keep her licence and not spend the rest of her life in jail)
Yes I am profile but I am not for prolonging unesesary suffering. Sometimes the pain is so severe that it actually prevents the patient from dying.
So put that in your pipe and smoke it.
You mentioneed the Nazis. Remember Dr Mendeler and what experiemneta he carried out on people fully conscious.
There is good and bad in this world. Why don't you focus on the good and do something about the bad.
Have you spoken to the police about your suspicious deaths, called the Coroner or reported the nurses involved to the State Licensing Board?
How do you spend your time? Hanging around listening to nurses gossip, wandering the halls of nursing homes asking relatives awkward questions about their loved ones. Spend a few days in a nursing home and take a good look at your fellow residents. Do you think they want to be sat in a hallway with their mouths drooping open and spit running down their faces fast asleep only to be woken when the dinner bell rings and be pushed into the dining room where the assigned Aide shovells food into their clamped shut mouths. All because they were given CPR after a stroke. All around the table there are others who have to be constantly woken and reminded to eat. or loved ones uging their mothers to eat it all to keep your strength up till Mom slaps the hand that is trying to feed her. Then there is the one, thin as a rake who quietly takes off her bib and covers the plate. 
Then take a trip into the therapy room where one elderly resident is clipping clothes pins on a piece of string. Then ther's me given a bowl of glass marbles and an empty bowl with instructions to transfer them one by one then transfer them bad. Me bad when the therapist was not looking I just picked up handfuls. I was there for rehab for a hip replacementt
This is the reality of keeping people alive beyond their sell by date.
Prolife there is a place for you in this crazy mixed up unkind world fighting for patients rights to the care they need and deserve but not here on this forum frightening people who are already carrying so much guilt and stress caring for their elders and at times children, who can't afford decent care. Bang on the door of the White House and tell them not to cut Medicare which is far from free and often leaves elders on the hind t**

Prolife: Hospice Care Professionals are not permitted to give ANY medications without a Doctor’s order. Staff at Hospices do NOT diagnose patients in the absence of a Physician. Why don’t you take this up with the Physicians involved in your personal situations instead of slamming Hospices? That would be much more proactive. Your anger is misdirected.

There are much cheaper and easier ways of killing off old people, starting with not medicating them for conditions that kill our grandparents. Perhaps you'd enjoy the Flat Earth Society more than this forum.

Help4eachother, what you describe is what was being done to Carly Walden's grandma, as I stated above.

Carly's grandma was not in pain, never complained of pain and was not even dying.

She was misdiagnosed with an end stage terminal illness by an emergency room doctor (a hospitalist) and given a prescription for hospice.

The hospice liaison lied to the family about what hospice is. They were told that it was just to give her a couple days rest and then she would get to come home.

She was not DYING, and three years after being saved, she is still alive.

The only thing killing her was the staff at the hospice facility by overdosing her with morphine.

I also witnessed my grandmother killed this way. She was not in pain. She never complained of pain. She was not even dying, but was killed by her doctor and a hospital. I'm sure you know what I'm talking about because I'm sure you've seen it done and probably even participated in such practices.

She walked into the hospital on her own, with no help. Was admitted for "treatment". Her care taker left and when she returned our grandma was "comatose". They lied to us about why our grandma was in a coma. They told us it was natural because she was just dying. They said the morphine (which they gave her right after her POA left, without informed consent), wouldn't cause that. They lied to us. It does sedate.

I also witnessed the misuse of terminal sedation done on my aunt, by hospice. She was sedated with morphine. And let to dehydrate to death for 8 days.

I also witnessed a cousin, who was not in pain, was fully alert and of sound mind, be given a large dose of morphine, which caused her death within minutes. Done by hospice.

And another aunt, was put on hospice. No pain. Of sound mind. Was given Haldol, making her unable to walk, a common side effect. The family was lied to. They were told that it was her condition worsening. She also was dehydrated to death.

I have been researching this and advocating against these murders since 2013. I know the justifications that are used by medical staff and you just repeated them verbatim.

Murder is murder. You can justify it all you want by making yourself out to be the heroine with a syringe. But these things are being done to people who are not dying and are not in pain. And people's lives are being cut short because they are blindly trusting the advise of the doctors and medical staff. You know you're killing.

Anyone can go to the forums, such as allnurses website, and read the conversations about these things. You will see that they know that they are hastening death and feel that they are doing a good deed by doing it. This is what they really believe. 

Welcome to Nazi America (see Hitler's T4 Program)! Where you become disposable if you are elderly, terminally ill, or disabled. Where the doctors and the insurance companies decide whose lives are worthy to be lived and whose aren't.

Hospices do NOT murder palliative care patients. For some reason, SOME families of cancer patients want their loved ones awake & reponsive for their OWN rather selfish needs and do not take into consideration that death is painful. The dying patient needs pain medication & one of the side effects of medications used in well managed pain is respiratory depression. As death approaches, vital organs start to shut down, circulation decreases & the patient sleeps away when “death with dignity” is practiced. Hydration can be used via IV in some cases but this practice can prolong the suffering & death progression. Keeping the mouth & lips moist and applying cream to the skin is a comfort measure practiced in palliation. Anyone who has seen a person screaming in pain & begging for death can certainly understand the agony people suffered prior to our current Palliative Care practices which provide DEATH WITH DIGNITY. During organ failure, pain increases, agitation & anxiety increase and human beings suffer...horribly if their pain & anxiety are not controlled with medication. Treatment of pain & other symptoms during the death process (which can take several days or even longer depending on age), especially in an expected death is humane...hardly murder! Hospices have wonderful, caring, educated Staff who dedicate their skills to providing comfort, dignity & the best care possible to dying patients. Only a lack of education & a total misunderstanding of professional ethics & top notch care for those who wish to die with dignity could elicit such an accusation. Murder? That is just NOT true.

Prolife, seriously. Why don't you find a site where most people agree with you and leave us alone.

My Mom was "dehydrated to death" as you put it. There is a reason for that. When the bodies kidneys start to shut down, if water is being administered regularly the person's body basically becomes a like a water bottle. The morphine is given regularly for obvious reasons. To lend comfort while the organs slowly shut down.

Yes, it was unpleasant to watch, to say the least. What would you have people do then?

Tell that to Carly Walden, who saved her grandmother from a hospice THREE years ago. She was sedated from being overdosed with morphine, and was an inch from her life, when Carly called 911 and the police.

Guess what? That hospice said the same thing you just said. They told Carly that her grandmother's state was normal because she was dying!!

But, guess what? When she arrived at the hospital by ambulance, they found that she had been overdosed with morphine and was not dying at all.

You can listen to Carly's story on The Vicky Travis Show.

Yes, I have seen a relative but into a terminal sedation (like Carly's grandma was) and dehydrated to death for 8 days. It was the most horrible thing I had ever seen. I wouldn't wish it on my worst enemy.

This is the most ridiculous thing I have ever read! Do you know what hospice is or does? When a person is at the end of their life and their doctor says they have no more than 6 months to live, the person can decide to choose hospice.

It’s the person’s choice! I only wish euthanasia was legal. Have you ever watched a loved one suffer as they approach death? Have you? Hospice means the patient does not want their life prolonged. The end.

Zam,

Ding, ding, ding, ding, ding

Hospice is not necessarily murder, but it sure is about money.

Ouch.  Please don't yell, it's rude.  Are you all aware that by continuing to ask people not to post, you're continuing the thread?

It's cathartic to post a reply.  I needed to do that.  My post wasn't directed at the OP, it was directed to others on this thread.  It just adds to the hurt to be reprimanded.  You don't have to keep reading the thread, but it's frustrating to see that others have had their say, but then be told I can't have mine.

STOP!!!

Caregivers come here for honest discussions, to share their lives and views.

A troll comes to promote their own agenda, push only their views onto unsuspecting victims, get publicity, refer to their website, get hits to make money, sell books, and take away from the forum rather than give something of value. A troll will incite others with opposing views, and if they don't get their way, will attack other posters. If they are ignored, they will take up their rant forcing their limited views on other social media sites such as twitter and facebook.  Like a cult leader.
A troll has no interest whatsoever in your free speech rights, your opinion, or anything other than their own agenda.

Please allow them their free speech rights by ignoring them so they can go scortch the earth on another site.

Since this thread is still at the top, I will add my comments.

It's one thing to "be aware of a philosophy" and discuss the origins of a company, but it's quite another to use the word "murder" associated with hospice, and in doing so, hurt the caregivers who are reading this forum, and possibly make them question or doubt the often difficult decisions they've made. That's NOT ok! This is the wrong forum for posting this kind of rant, IMHO, and it's basically attempting to put shame and fear into vulnerable people who are in difficult situations. Shame on Prolife for that!

If someone wants to reasonably discuss something like this, that's fine, but they should do it in a respectful manner.  Using the word "murder" is inciteful as well as disrespectful, if not outright defamatory.

Veronica91..thank you..well said...expressed...as long as people are aware...and aware of the philosophy..service company..they choose when the time comes...so they can choose appropriately....

Not feeding the Troll BUT it is true the Euthanasia Society is now under the umbrella of the Hospice and Palliative Care Association.
Does not mean I agree that they should be associated because I don't
As many people know I am a proponant of hospice having been a hospice RN for ten years and I will definitely be calling them in when my time comes.
There is usually a bad apple in most barrels and I will leave it at that

CWillie, thanks for the reminded. Folks, me included, don't feed the trolls!

Prolife, you might have the right to what I call "miguided views" and can express them. But this troll like behavior must end right now. Your views on hospice is just like the anti-vaccination people. Unfounded and dangerous.

Profile..I believe you have good intentions....but everyone should be able to choose for themselves how they would like their passing in life to take place..and what it should be like..quick without much pain..or through nature...and hospice does provide necessary care that family and hospitals cannot give..

And..Yes..people,should know who is who ..in the organization...and the philosophy...and be transparent..so people can choose appropriately..the service and company...and their philosophy...for their final days..

And..regulations and oversight and proper training in place to ensure that unintentionall death does not occur.....they are not misdiagnosed..or have a treatable illness..pain...and that the person is actually in a state of near death...or that fraud ...or abuse is taking place..which has occurred in the past resulting in lawsuits and federal..state investigations...as well as the government survey ...questionnaire forms that..that are mailed out to families as a follow up..which is good.....and the individual..and family..should educate themselves and pay attention as welll...self responsibility...every human is fallible..........so there is already oversight regulations in place..which is good..not perfect..but still there..

But..ones right to choose...and choose the service care they want should never be another person's choice...government or group dictate..It is the individuals choice...and no one should be denied a painless as possible passing...and hospice provides comfort and care..for the elderly and terminally ill...as well as assisting those you are ready to leave this world...in a painlessly as possible manner...

And I applaud this aging care web site..for its convictions, open mindedness and courage to allow such posting topics to be addressed..answered..without  censorship...topics and comments may not be pleasant to everyone...but it creates a dialogue..awareness and thought..as well as an outlet for those experiencing ..experienced...events that are unpleasant..illness and care of a loved one..and no one should be censored..because some do not like what is being said...people are adults..and can judge for themselves ..hopefully, ...the validity...and if applicable to their reality.....

and aging care has provided a place for people to seek answers...as questions ..as well as to express their thoughts..which is invaluable...

The more that people keep commenting, the longer this thread stays on the top.

CM, is Prolife expressing a view or trying to incite people? I think rabble rousing is a more apt term for what this poster is doing. Expressing a well written view is one thing; repeated attempts to incite is a different animal.

I note also that "expressing" a view is usually presented differently from repeated written chants, more appropriate for a group of protesters.

Prolife, then when the time comes at the end of your life, make sure your family knows that you are anti-Hospice. Get it in writing, Notarized, and hand out copies to your love ones.

It is your choice to suffer in horrific pain during the last few weeks of your life. Cancer is one of the most brutal of deaths.

As it is our choice to use Hospice for our final months.