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All my life my father has been depressive and anxiety ridden, but also demanding, manipulative and when it suited him, outgoing and the life and soul of the party. Now he is in a care home (with my mother - who has dementia - but he does not care about that, only that she cannot care for him now) and it is all about him. He waits for my visits and as soon as I enter the building he is waiting for me and wants me to go outside with him so he can smoke etc, and moan and complain about my mother and how life is awful and he wished he were dead. If I try to do anything with my mother he tells me not to bother and that I am wasting my time as she doesn't care about anything anymore (not true). I found it very hard to cope with his 'me first' attitude and the fact that no matter what I did it was never enough, even to the point of damaging my own health. Recently I read an article which was about Narcissistic Personality Disorder (google it as it is very relevant!) and I could not believe what I was reading - it was like my dads personality laid out for all to see. It is a real 'mental illness' although I am not sure there is any treatment other than medications to treat the side effects of depression and anxiety etc, but it does mean that I now regard my father differently and find it a little (just a little but it helps!) easier to deal with him, as I know that he is unable to be reasonable and that his selfishness is not necessarily badness, just illness. I hope this helps a bit as I know how difficult a demanding and seemingly self-pitying elder can be, even when they are getting the best of care and attention. You are most definitely not alone!
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My mom does this now also. Ever since my father passed 3 years ago repeats the same words. I want to die. Says it to my kids also. My sisters will only take her to the doctor that gives my mom what she wants and wants to hear.
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Interesting discussion. May I add that both the father and tbumpy might benefit from caregivers support group and/or professional consultation to learn to "detach with love" (as in taught in the support group of Al-Anon for friends/families of alcoholics, but applicable in many other situations where a loved one exhibits behavior that is upsetting others...) Staying sane and healthy while caring for someone who has dememtia with other underlying/complicating diagnoses is not something humans were intended to do alone - or with one other family member. Tbumpy, please get some mental health care for yourself and for your father. Chances are, you are unintentionally "rewarding" and therefore reinforcing your mother's manipulative behavior. With behavioral health consultation, perhaps you can learn some new ways of responding/detaching from her...Best wishes to you, to your father, AND to your mother. Your parents are certainly fortunate to have you. Grace
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My mother purposely completed all the "directives" in the world many years ago to avoid just the situation she is currently in. She now lives with 24 other people who also have "directives" and have been living a really painful "Groundhog Day" for 6-8 years because they keep feeding themselves even though they don;t remember that they have eaten 5 minutes later. If there is a "directive" to help me avoid what my mother is enduring please forward that to all of us so we can fill it out and fast.
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I tend to agree with a previous poster who mentioned that, if she had had this sort of personality before the dementia, then there is very little that you can do about it and it does sound lilke there was a personality disorder that wasn't dealt with previous to the onset of dementia.
I hear the same thing from my mother, age 86. One day before she came to live with us I got a phone call from her in which she said "I'm tired of being sick......I might as well take an overdose". How do you answer a comment like that?
I believe it is mostly an attention-getting attempt at garnering pity for themselves. When my mother said this, there was nothing wrong with her, other than the fact that she had neglected her health so badly (ate with abandon even though she had diabetes, refused to take her medication because she "didn't believe" what the dr. said or that the pills were helping her)
and also she just wanted to be left alone to her own devices and didn't want to have anyone telling her what to do.
The previous posting is correct: these problems have existed long before any of their serious health issues came along.......I know this because, for 25 yrs. my mother complained that I "wouldn't" drive, she lived in another town by her own choice, constantly asked me "what will happen when I take sick", and said to my brother when I bought a new house, "well they better have a guest room".
They are clever and devious when they want to be, and masters at guilting you into getting what they want - their skills at manipulation are unparalleled.
So the next time she says "I just want to die", say to her "so based on your behaviour in life, where do you think you'd be going? Heaven or Hell?" I guarantee you a stunned silence, and maybe she will think twice before she tries to pack your bags for your guilt trip.
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Ohiodaughter, I can believe that some people really want to die. People in severe physical or mental pain or grief or guilt -- I suppose there are a number of factors that might drive someone there. When my husband realized he had dementia he felt cheated -- "Why didn't I die of a heart attack, like all my brothers?"

Reading tbumpy's original post here, there is a pre-disease history that suggests to me (but doesn't prove) something else is going on.

But you raise an interesting question. What about those cases where the person simply and truly wants to die?

Some people believe in assisted suicide.

I guess I would still try to ease the anxiety and try to make the person feel somewhat better. My original post would still be my answer, as much for the poor woman's husband as for her. I would also talk about a health care directive that does not prolong life in any way.
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When my deaf Gran was in a nursing home she would share a room with the crazies because she couldn't hear them. One woman would scream "oh Lord please take me I'm ready to go". One day the Lord finally did.

My Mom says the same thing, but only to me. When I've tried to discuss it with her Doctor she just says everything is wonderful. Christmas Day while I was driving her from her assisted living home to my house I got so mad at her for talking like that when we got in I announced it to the whole house. It embarassed her enough she realized how distressing what she was saying was.

Now instead of saying she wants to die she says she's depressed. I guess that's an improvement.

I've also realized when she says how much she misses her home, etc. She just misses it and knows that she couldn't live there anymore. It's my own guilt for moving her that feels bad about it.
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Sorry, My last sentences was typed incorrectly but it's the most important sentence of my post so I would like to correct it: "Why is it so hard to believe they DO really want to die?"
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There are some people with dementia who truly want to die....their lives that used to be filled with love and joy and peaceful contentment has been stolen from them and they are mentally tormented every waking minute of the day. I believe my own sweet loving mother truly wants to to die. She cries all day about why she can't remember what she had for breakfast and that she can't remember her grandchildren and that she is taking up her family's time and that she can't even get herself dressd etc etc...what about these people???? She isn't playing any "guilt" card and never did, she isn't mentally ill and never was, she isn't trying to "punish" her family in any way...she has a physical "brain" disease no different from cancer of an organ. Why is it so hard to believe they don't really want to die??
I would.
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In addition to what Jeanne said - the word "retarded" is rather outdated and not anymore an excepted word to describe people who are "mentally challenged" or" developementally handicapped". These are kinder words to use and politically correct, so to speak. Saying someone is retarded is just not respectful. Mental health disorders come in many forms.
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Oh my, Godzie, if you think that all mental health issues come down to the playground taunt of "retarded," I hope that means you have never had to deal with real mental health issues up close and personal. I hope you can continue to be so sheltered.

But when a serious, dedicated member of our board, like cattails, suggests a mental illness, it is like suggesting someone may have had undiagnosed diabetes, or perhaps should be tested for sleep apnea. These statements are not at all insults. They are trying to get at what is wrong in order to deal wth the situation effectively.

I'm sorry, but someone who constantly, all her adult life, moans about wanting to die is not mentally healthy. tbumpy, the original poster, thinks she may have borderline personality disorder. Talking about these things is perfectly acceptable here, just like talking about copd, chf, diabetes, or any other problems that the people we care for might be experiencing.

What is insulting is to lump all mental disorders together as "retarded" and to think that is offensive. People who are retarded are entitled to dignity and respect, too. None of these disorders are insulting. They just are what they are.
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My mother-in-law used to be pretty mean to me in the early days. She was a career woman, and never could understand why I would want to stay home and take care of our son and my husband, when I could be out there making money. Well now it's 40 years later, she has dementia, macular degeneration, widowed and lonely. Now she's sweeter than pie to me, and SO very grateful that I'm NOT out there working, but can spend my time with her. So it really was all about her in the first place, when I made her feel guilty for putting her job ahead of her 3 boys and husband. And it's still all about her, cause now I'm willing and able to see that she doesn't stay cooped up all the time in her asst. living place. I've had to have a couple of surgeries in the last 3 years, and I know very well that she's thinking 'how is this going to affect me?'. It is what it is, and I'm okay with it (now). ha
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3pinkroses: I am so happy to hear that your mom is better due to the right meds. It's really like a miracle isn't it, a life changing miracle. We have a friend who had problems with both of his hips. For years he suffered and it took him forever to get from place to place. He finally had surgery done, one hip at a time, and the results are nothing short of being reborn. The pain is gone, he walks with ease. He's even on a bowling team now.

To me these are miracles in the lives of those who suffer and I am always moved to see these miracles happen. Thanks for sharing about your mom. I hope it gives tbumpy the encouragement she needs to seek out help for her mom.

Love ya, Cattails.
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I agree with Cattails - I think my father and I were in denial for so long about my mother's mental health issues. Like tbumpy, my mother has been saying she is going to die ever since I can remember. This is not "normal" - and my mother's negativity and manipulation made my father's life miserable; as well as mine.

I also agree with Jeanne about getting the proper medication. It took professionals to make me understand that my mother has and probably always had a personality disorder. That combined with dementia is a difficult scenario. She is finally on the proper medication, but it took years as she refused. I tried so hard to get her on medication after working with psychiatrists she had been evaluated by. And Godzie, mental health issues are not calling .someone "retarded" - it is what it is and until it is properly diagnosed and treated; it is quite destructive to both the person and family. My mother is finally on the "right" meds and such a difference it has made - she is finally doing better after all these years.

I hope you can find some help as Cattails recommended; especially for the sake of your Dad. Take care.
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Godzie: Read the original post from tbumpy. Her mother has said these things all of her life and it's now worse due to dementia. Maybe there is medication that can help. I wasn't trying to insult her mom.
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Uh for the comment from Cattalis? Real sweet saying that she had a mental illness all her life of her mother before this dementia? (Idiot)
Her mother has dementia but still can comunicate w/her family? She feels useless now & old & the last thing anyone can tell her is she's retarded? The elderly are like children again constantly needing assurance that they are loved & useful...even if it's just to fold the washcloths?
We are all in the same boat everyday getting older to that crossroads in life & hope that you are not put down saying she always had mental problems like you did her mother when you get to that age?
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Your mom has probably had a mental illness or personality disorder all of her life. It's time to get into see a geriatric specialist who deals with dementia and mental illnesses specific to the elderly. Do this for your dad's sake. Some people make others so unhappy all during their youth and middle age and refuse to get the help that could make their world brighter and their relationships closer. At this time, it's not so much up to her as it is to you to get her evaluated and see if anything can be done to make the end of her life better. Not just for her, but for all of you. I hope there is a solution for you and wish you the best. Love, Cattails.
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My mother who is 83 that has dementia from a past brain tumor says the same thing...The old I want to die or I'm going to die is a attention giver...She wants attention on your guilt...I'm 83 & my death is soon (tug at heartstrings) I tell her I'm dying too..she says me first! Then I say Are you God? you don't know what can happen & at this rate your killing me w/antics so I will die before you? Then she laughs! Laughter is the best medicine..Put on a funny old movie she enjoys. (tell her you love her) Try to include her in family get togethers...Don't seclude her...Thank God for those 3 mornings...I have mine 24/7 (thank God for sleep) But one day I know she will join my dad in heaven so at least I have her here while I can? God is watching over your family at this time so pray for patients! Good luck :)
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There's a saying that just popped into my mind, 'you know what they say, GUILT, the gift that keeps on giving'. Your mother has got that down to a science I'd say.
If you and your dad couldn't do anything about that guilt/martyrdom thing when your mother wasn't mentally impaired, I don't know what can be done about it now. Maybe some sort of drug like Jeanne suggested.
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Getting the right drugs for mental conditions can be a long process of trial and error. Has her doctor been informed that the present prescription doesn't work? Maybe it is time to try something else, for your Dad's sake.

Could she go to day care 5 days a week?
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