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The driving issue is a tough one indeed. I went through it with my mom. I'd even taken her keys away, and she called TripleA, had the car towed there, told them she lost her keys and needed new ones made - ALL BEHIND MY BACK!! Luckily, the Nissan dealership deals with such all the time, so they called me and tipped me off, and together we finessed her in to not having keys made.

Mom and I also had a sit-down with her Neurologist who point blank told her she was a danger on the road - THAT made no difference to her - she just told him that with all her years of driving she was less of a danger on the road than he was (he was in his 40's). Other docs were not as forthright as he was, but gently nudged her toward giving up her license - to NO avail - she'd have none of it.

Finally - I rallied her doctors - who ALL wrote a letter to the DMV telling them she should NOT be driving. I also had relatives write in as well (you see, this way I could honestly look her in the face and tell her "Hey, your doctors wrote to the DMV, not me!" Thank God for semantics!) . At long last her license WAS pulled and that was that. It was a battle but well worth the fight...and her driving wasn't THAT bad, but I had no desire to be a passenger in a vehicle where driver pulls OUT the IN driveway of Loew's on to a busy, major, highway.

This made no difference to my mom as she was in total denial about her failing driving capabilities, but you might want to ask FIL and MIL if they are ready to lose ALL their hard earned assets if they should hit and kill someone and get sued.

Good Luck, it isn't easy but it IS a battle worth going to the wall for - way too much at stake.
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I didn't read all the comments (so forgive me if I say something someone else has said).
I recently went through this with my FIL, so I am familiar.
First of all, you said " he's passed special examinations from the DMV - twice - and the last test was about a month ago." What "special exams" did he have? Seriously, if he passed a written exam and a driving exam, I can't understand how he COULD if he is a bad driver. HOWEVER, there are probably TWO things you CAN do (I know because I did them). 1) You can talk to his dr. and if his dr. agrees that he shouldn't be driving, then he can sign the form (from the state) that says he medically should not be driving. At the very least, in this case, the DMV will retest him but it will be UP TO HIM to navigate it (make the appointments, etc.). If he has dementia, his dr. will most definitely not sign the paperwork for him to drive. 2) YOU can turn him in (through a special DMV) form. And it's anonymous. This is what we finally had to do. You send in the form with your reasons why you feel he shouldn't be driving. Then you will receive (at least I did) a phone call from DMV to interview you about it. Then HE will receive a letter saying that he must retest (written and driving) PLUS his dr must give the ok that he can drive (within 30 days) or his license will be suspended.

As for the drugs, is there a mail-order option?

I will be praying for a solution for you! So stressful.
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Find a VFW or Disabled Vets place (sometimes at community college or senior center locations) and have counselor check into the medical insurance setup - they may have better solution and suggestions. Get a list of medications and check out with Medicare advisor (is there a Rx drug plan as part of the insurance setup?)
Perhaps the distant base trip for meds is a relic of the past. Walgreens accepts Tricare now if they have Tricare coverage. Mail order should certainly be available option. My uncle has 3 insurance coverages - VA, Tricare + something else and doesn't pay much at all ($3-7) and mail order for 3 month supply of on-going meds.
My uncle tells me the base grocery prices are no longer a good deal as they were 20 years ago. He gets similar pricing at regular stores and doesn't bother going to the base commissary anymore.

And above all, refuse to go if you are not driving and your vehicle would be best to avoid the key possession issue.
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Are you sure that they can't mail him the meds? My experience with the VA is that they will mail them a 90-day supply of most meds. FIL should check into that possibility....or you could and then let them know that this is what needs to occur.
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My Dad would get his meds through the VA. My parents would drive a long distance to get Dad's meds and they lived out of state at the time and I could not help them at the time. However, after some research, we discovered a small VA clinic a lot closer which could dispense his meds. What a relief. Perhaps some research would find your Dad a closer option.
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We get upset with the DMV around here that are always letting people drive who are unfit to drive. Their excuse- they feel sorry for them. The real reason is that is about getting more money for the DMV. I've heard many stories from concerned children about their parents who should not be driving. My Mom is about to that stage now, so will have the same battle with the DMV. The only way around it is for the DR to say they should not drive any more.
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My mother should have stopped driving 2 years ago as she can barely see, is almost deaf and has dementia. I was the only person saying this and the DMV renewed her license last summer at age 86, daylight only. She insists on living alone and driving to the grocery store etc. Fast forward to December 1 when she decided to go to the grocery store for something she had forgotten on her earlier visit, after dark. She drove right into the back of a parked pickup truck, totaled her car and the truck, and suffered a broken sternum. She was hospitalized several days and sent to a rehab nursing home for a week. She's now back at her house, living alone.

She no longer has a car but still has a license! All I can say is thank God she didn't hurt or kill someone else. She wasn't even given a citation for this!
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Can the MP's on your FIL's base be contacted with this information? Perhaps they can stop him and prevent him from driving. I am not that familiar with the military, but maybe you could contact the base commander and explain the situation. If he can't drive on base, I guess you will have to...
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Just an FYI - the VA does not deliver by post. Express Scripts is our mail delivery system, and some meds are not covered but are covered if one picks it up at the base pharmacy (or kiosk in the BX). Maybe this is the situation with the father-in-law. Also, they don't mail narcotics (Class 2 drugs).
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The driving issue is a difficult one and I wish the government would step up to the challenge of ensuring seniors are okay to drive. In Ontario Canada, the Ministry of Transportation renewed my mother's drivers licence at age 84 for 2 more years. She was clearly showing Alzheimer's symptoms at the time and we were sure she wouldn't pass. We were shocked to learn that after some classroom kumbaya session, the fact that she could draw the hands on a clock, and NO road test, our officials decided she was qualified to drive. Governments advice - have a little talk with mom. Yeah right. No way will she stop driving as she thinks she is perfectly fine. Perfectly normal when you have Alzheimer's. Although most seniors drive carefully, statistics show that people aged 70 or older have a higher accident rate per kilometre driven than any other age group except young male drivers. Unfortunately the government keeps renewing seniors licenses pretty easily so it becomes the family's responsibility first, then the primary care physician. What it comes down to is, are you going to allow your parent to drive and possibly seriously hurt or kill themself or someone else? I seriously hope not for everyone's sake. First we tried blocking her car in the driveway whenever we could. We tried to drive her wherever we could. We hid her keys at times. She had a few fender benders. After the last one, she settled the repair costs from out of pocket, not through insurance. We found the lady she hit and asked her to return the cheque and report it through her insurance company hoping that my mom's nsurance company would decline future coverage. They didnt. Finally, after her last collision we refused to get her car out of the body shop. This finally put an end to her driving although she still has a valid licence. Thankfully!!! The road road is a little safer. After she was officially diagnosed with Alzheimer's, her doctor was ultimately very good at getting her license suspended quickly, but it takes a while to get to that point. Too long. Now she no longer drives. In a rural area, she needed transportation and lost her freedom. A whole new set of challenges and problems for the family. Some government services are available for transportation but they are limited. This was a major reason why we moved her to a retirement home. At least she is not driving anymore. I wish the government would do more thorough testing of seniors cognitive abilities and check with family members before renewing senior licences, especially the over 80 crowd!!! My complaint to the Ministry seemed to go unheard and my response from them was some standard PR nonsense. I believe that in Ontario, the government does not want to tackle this issue becauss of the cost. They seem satisfied to regulate the heck out of getting a new licence with a graduated licencing system that takes years to complete. They worry about drunk driving and R. I. D. E. checks but they turn a blind eye when it comes to seniors??? I don't get it.
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They should be able to get their meds through the military prescription mail away. It's express scripts through Tricare. Otherwise I would tell them that you will only go with them if you can drive. Be honest and tell him his driving scares you.
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Any prescriptions you get on base for free are also covered by TriCare at regular pharmacies, like CVS, Walgreens, and even grocery store pharmacies like Harris Teeter, etc. And now Target, WalMart and everyone else does the TriCare prescriptions super cheap. My mom takes 5 rxs each day, and a 30 day supply totals less than $20, and actually 3 of them are filled as 90 day supplies. The way to set up mail order is the doctors have to fax the prescriptions to TriCare and/or Medicare. My mom's doctor doesn't use a fax, so that's why I go to the pharmacy to get them. The consideration on your dad driving isn't will he be okay, etc, but how bad will he feel when he kills or maims someone, and what a bad way to wind down the later years of your life.
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it is not a matter of may I drive? it is a matter of "if you want my assistance then I am driving. You are taking your personal (volunteer) time to be helpful and to keep them safe. They are the ones who need the help. If they can't cooperate with your request, you MUST walk away and just say you are sorry you then you really don't want or need my help. It is the hardest thing to do. I was my Mother's robot for sixty years but now I am no longer at her mercy for her demands. We compromise with each other. I drive now to where she would like to go. If she wants something, then I want her give me the same respect and consideration for my needs.
You have the right as an adult, even if it is your M/D/MIL/FIL to control your own life. I understand why they going to the base, but it was their decision to do so. Once they realize how difficult it is to do by themselves, they will have a change of heart and accept your assistance, that is, only if you can drive. Remember when people get older the biggest fear is, little by little they are losing control of their life and what they physically can do for themselves. Once they start accepting help it means they have to give someone else the control. They will fight toot and nail to keep their way of life to their standards, so that is the real reason why he wants to drive. Our elders need the same guidance as our children. We want them happy and safe, while you keep yourself happy and safe too.
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As far as your fil's meds go, has he called the va to see if they can be delivered via postal service.. My fil has his meds mailed to his house. Also how much can they possibly save if the drive is far, considering gas, were on the vehicle. If you believe his driving is dangerous I would call the dmv and talk to someone about your concerns. The last time I rode with my fil I kissed the ground when I got out of his car, and and kissed the ground (so to speak). I was afraid. He has since lost his driving priviledges. He failed his test.

Good luck to you, but make sure your husband speaks to him too.
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Do your in-laws want you to go with them? If yes, then what for? To stand in line?
Explain to them that you will be driving if you go. Be firm and smile. Once you have driven them, they will realize how much easier it is for them to relax and ride along. You might suggest it on the way home when they are tired and wore out!
If your FIL doesn't have any dementia, you should be able to reason with him.
If you can't, then you should refuse to go or become sick. You have a responsibility to yourself and your husband.
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When the time was way past due, I simply said to my husband:

"From now on, when we are both in the car, I drive."

He never drove again.

Get this into your head, this is not a moral dilemma. it is a safety issue.

Safety first!

You have very right to set your boundaries. If he doesn't like it, he can stay home.
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I remember a doctor sitting down with a patient and explaining to him how dangerous a driver( the patient) was and ask if the patient wanted to be responsible for hurting or worse killing someone especially a child.My own dad went down to the DMV and personally handed in his license as he felt unsafe driving.Just because ,as the doctor explained, they passed the DMV tests doe snot mean their reflexes are safe enough for driving.JUst "food for thought" Good luck
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As a retired military spouse, there is no reason why with a military card and a signed form you cannot pick up meds. They can also be delivered by mail (see express-scripts.com). Shopping can be handled at the commissary with a military card (they can wait by the checkout while you put groceries in the cart) so they do not become too tired. If the MVD has passed your father-in-law to drive, then if he is still competent he gets to drive. You do not share why you think he should not be driving so I can only guess. I don't guess when it comes to driving habits. State your concerns in a letter to the MVD, and that is all you can do, besides not riding with him while he is driving. Does your mother-in-law drive? Try removing yourself from this equation and let the chips fall where they may. You cannot control every aspect of every life.
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Well done to you, Confounded, for putting your foot down.

In terms of calling a halt to FIL's driving in general, what about a dashboard camera? If he thinks he's Nikki Lauder or something and he's already passed the tests okay, he may not object to a further way of showing what a brilliant driver he is. And then, since the camera doesn't lie, you'll have any evidence you need on record.
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You can call the DMV and ask them the procedure in your state for reporting a family member who is medically impaired and should not be driving, they will take it from there. I had a friend who had to do it with her mother.
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What about phoning his primary care physician to see about giving him an exam? Is it his sight or his slow reactions while driving? It is dangerous having him on the road? Maybe the doc can give him eye exam and more and possibly write out an RX that he should not drive if he finds evidence of bad eyesight and more.
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Confounded I am so glad you found a resolution! I feel for you. I LOVE this site and the support I found here.
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Oh my goodness, This is a very common situation and the cops in every town are well aware of it. They know the awkwardness families face. They know the denial. We had to deal with it, too. I wrote to the DMV about ten years prior to the actual date my poor mom got her driver's license taken away and I believe all of us kids did the exact same thing.

A few years later I was in the car (which was rare) the day my mom got a speeding ticket, driving in a school zone. I had to explain to my mom that a cop was behind us, repeated over and over "Please pull over, you must stop now!" and then, repeated to her over and over that a cop was standing outside the car. Then she wanted to know what the cop was asking. I had to explain that he wanted to see her license and registration which took repeated explanation on my part. I kept asking myself why the cop was so clueless as well, why did he not question why this woman needed explanations about this routine thing. Poor Mom! She paid the ticket when the bill arrived in the mail.

Years later, one more time I was with her when she was driving. Yes, it was truly terrifying. She stopped in the middle of the road for no reason, repeatedly. One of the offhand remarks she made was, "I am the best driver on the road!" I swore I would rather walk ten miles than ever get in with her again. We kids prayed for a smart cop, which was about all we could do since we'd gone through all the channels we could.

Mom had already wrecked the car she had and was now "renting" cars whenever she felt like it. One day, after years of this nonsense, my brother got a call from the town police saying my mom had been in a car wreck and they had taken her license and driven her home. No one else was hurt nor was anything significantly damaged. Mom was fined for the small damages incurred to the rental car and the other car. She paid. She was told under extreme remote conditions she might get her license back but the courts deliberately made it impossible for her.

I don't know what you but a lot depends on your local laws. Unfortunately many elders really want to hold onto their licenses to the point of denial.

Most of us have some aspect of aging we simply do not like to admit, even to ourselves. Perhaps we aren't as good at a task as we used to be, or we don't remember the things we learned in college, we can no longer speak that foreign language as well, or we can't do figures in our heads anymore nor thread a needle. Some women don't like admitting they are having hot flashes. Or we don't want to admit that our years ahead are fewer than the years that are behind us.
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Zythrr ... no, I'm afraid the military pharmacies don't work that way. They do their own shipping for *eligible* patients -- which my in-laws are not. Yes, military pharmacies are weird. But the meds are free.

For now, I don't mind making the drive and taking care of the in-laws, as long as I'M the one doing the driving, and as long as they only need moderate care while on base (finding groceries, general running around, bringing the car to them, etc.).

The problem is that my FIL still thinks he can drive safely. He can't. The day I posted the OP, he'd just totally proven - again - that he cannot. (If only we could convince the DMV ...)

Taking/disabling their car is not an option. He's still got it too much together for that to work. More important, my MIL still needs the car. She limits her driving, but is still capable of driving locally, in good weather and by daylight. Hiding the car won't work, either, because her mobility is slightly impaired and she'd never be able to get to the car. She will *not* get tough with him, although she and I are on the same page as to his abilities.

All I can do is get tough myself, and stay tough. And I'm really grateful to the group for urging me to do so.
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Confounded

Pretty easy solution, for a few dollars their meds could be shipped UPS or FedEx. Surely both shippers do business with where they get their meds, don't they?
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My parents-in-laws' complex health care arrangements were made years ago, when both were still working, and before so many local bases closed.

We are definitely getting to the point where traveling so far for meds and groceries is impractical even if I take over all of the driving, simply because it is so wearing on them ... but for now, the savings are HUGE.

My MIL fully understands that changes will soon be necessary. My FIL cannot cope with this level of decision making. As for me, I'm willing to make the drive as along as it's feasible. At the same time, I'm also seeking viable alternatives.
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I'm so proud of you Confounded. Good job!! I suspect FIL knows that he shouldn't be driving. He is probably relieved that you have taken this over and it sounds like MIL is relieved for sure. Thanks for letting us know.
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UPDATE: I only had to raise a mild ruckus. I drove, and all went well. Hope to do the same on all future trips to the base ... possibly minus too many more ruckuses (ruckusi?).

By the way, this is the first thread I've read about anything, anywhere, where all respondents were unanimous. Many thanks!
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They get their meds through the military, not the VA, and they get them for free. Our gas prices are ridiculously high, but you can't beat free!

They're on a civilian health plan, but a military meds plan. Military mail order meds are available only if they switched to the military health plan ... in which case every doctor's visit would require many additional long drives to the base. (And I'm not sure they can still switch over to the military plan.)

My FIL's regular doc sees nothing wrong. It was a substitute doc who turned him over to the DMV.

My MIL is frail, but sharp. She's started to opt out of the trips, but no way does she want to cause a fuss, or be caught in the middle of one. Regrettably, I need to cause a fuss. But it's her I'm worried about, not him.
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Confounded, let's think into the future. What happens when your Dad can no longer drive? I doubt the military doctors and Rx would insist that he drive to the base to get his meds. There has to be some type of mail order delivery in that case.

I bet the commissary is like going to DisneyLand for them each month, and they look forward to that.

My parents would only get their meds via mail order and it was sent to their mailbox at the post office. I rarely go to that side of town but would have to check their mailbox twice a day if they were expecting a Rx delivery. I would go during my lunch hour at work.

Finally I got my parents to have their Rx meds delivered to the perfectly good mailbox that sits at the end of their short driveway. But Mom was still worried that the mailman would know what pills she was taking.... [rolling eyes].
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