Driving: Moral dilemma.

Why are you expected to do this? Is this trip really necessary for cheap goods and meds? If this guy is ok with the DMV there's no way to end the driving but you don't have to get in the car with him. You're quite right to be resentful. It might ruffle some feathers but stand up for yourself.

The trips really are necessary, for the meds if nothing else. They have over a dozen prescriptions each. I'm needed to help with the shopping, and also to spell them in line (I'm not military-connected, so they have to pick up the meds themselves, but I stand in for them in line). No one else is available to do this. And someone's gotta do it.

I understand how hard it is to watch our elders struggle through life. I'm dealing with two very stubborn parents myself. im not sure I understand why the meds must be purchased at this particular military base. There's no way around this? Is the cost savings worth the time and travel?

Refuse to do it unless you drive. You plan on dying in his car wreck? Didn't think so...so you drive. Either be forceful or find a way to have to drive ( you've developed motion sickness at this late age when are a passenger, or whatever). What's the long term plan going to be when he officially isn't allowed to drive? Mail order?

Do they really need or have to go to that particular military base to get meds? If they don't, let them know that you are not going to help them out with the meds and shopping bit. Surely there are places close by your parents and a Save-A-Lot place (or something similar). There is no good enough reason why they need to go to that pharmacy on base and shop for groceries there.

They absolutely have to go there (they also want to). We're talking hundreds of dollars per month in much-needed savings, even with mileage costs. Their health insurance setup is weird. Mail order is not available.

As for the long term, if his license is finally taken away, then they'll have no choice but to let me drive. He's still too law-abiding to defy the DMV.

What I'm worried about in the even longer term is what happens if/when neither one can "supervise" me while we're on base.

As for now, I'm stuck. If his driving was the only issue, I wouldn't be doing this at all (though I'd still be/feel responsible if anything went wrong).

NO WAY NO HOW would I get in a plane, boat or automobile with anyone I believe unfit to drive. You are doing them a great favor my donating your time to this trip, they need to compromise and let you drive. If they persist on going without you, so be it. What good would it do them or anyone else on the road to have you in the back seat if / when they do have an accident. Stay home and be one less potential victim.
Also, if these trips "wear them out" I do not see how bringing you along wears them out any less - maybe you are helping with the bags. If these trips are so hard on them, maybe they can consider an option closer to home. How much of a cost savings is this, after you factor in car expenses and time?

Sometimes people just want to hang out to familiar habits because that is the way it has always been done and it helps them hold on to their better (healthier) days.

This is more than just a familiar habit - though it is that, too. The trips are only once a month.

The meds are the sticky point, and a big one. Between trips, they do shop locally. But he shouldn't be driving locally, either. For now, that's between FIL and MIL, who does drive (when he lets her). She also wisely limits her driving.

That Said ... I think I've come up with an argument for tomorrow's trip, and a possible workaround for future trips.

Will let you know about both, if they work.

And I forgot ... many thanks. You've all helped me think more clearly about this ridiculous predicament.

Does your husband have medical and financial POA? Perhaps since he is disabled, you should have it. Perhaps you could call the pharmacy and ask them what you can do to get their meds without their having to physically be there? Surely there are others who aren't able to pick up their own meds. Perhaps there is special paperwork that could be filled out to allow you to pick up the meds.

They've asked us (primarily me) to be medical POA, and we accepted. One, maybe both, of my sisters-in-law is/are better qualified to be financial POA. My in-laws are making those decisions now. Blessedly, we siblings/siblings-in-law work together fairly well, but we are spread out geographically.

Military pharmacies, however, are a thing unto themselves. But I've found hints that there may be some complicated mechanism to allow me to pick up meds. Getting on the base in the first place, however, is another issue.

Confounded, is your FIL getting prescriptions through the VA or a military base? My grandpa got his VA Rx's mailed to his house, and we are only a few miles from the VA.

I would definitely talk to his dr, let them know that he passed DMV test but you are seeing slow reactions, poor judgement, and are concerned.

Also make sure someone from family talks to whomever prescribes his drugs and explain the predicament. That age group is proficient at editing info to make it seem like they "have" to do certain things. The dr may have more flexibility than your FIL is letting on.

Do not let him drive you. He might through a temper fit but sooner or later he's going to have to face up to the reality that a bruised ego is better than someone getting injured or worse.

Have you looked at Good Rx? It might help with the cost of medication and if it does, there won't be a real need to drive a million miles to a military base to get them. I don't know what gas prices look like in your area but is the savings really off setting the savings of the meds or do they like making a day trip?

Confounded, let's think into the future. What happens when your Dad can no longer drive? I doubt the military doctors and Rx would insist that he drive to the base to get his meds. There has to be some type of mail order delivery in that case.

I bet the commissary is like going to DisneyLand for them each month, and they look forward to that.

My parents would only get their meds via mail order and it was sent to their mailbox at the post office. I rarely go to that side of town but would have to check their mailbox twice a day if they were expecting a Rx delivery. I would go during my lunch hour at work.

Finally I got my parents to have their Rx meds delivered to the perfectly good mailbox that sits at the end of their short driveway. But Mom was still worried that the mailman would know what pills she was taking.... [rolling eyes].

They get their meds through the military, not the VA, and they get them for free. Our gas prices are ridiculously high, but you can't beat free!

They're on a civilian health plan, but a military meds plan. Military mail order meds are available only if they switched to the military health plan ... in which case every doctor's visit would require many additional long drives to the base. (And I'm not sure they can still switch over to the military plan.)

My FIL's regular doc sees nothing wrong. It was a substitute doc who turned him over to the DMV.

My MIL is frail, but sharp. She's started to opt out of the trips, but no way does she want to cause a fuss, or be caught in the middle of one. Regrettably, I need to cause a fuss. But it's her I'm worried about, not him.

UPDATE: I only had to raise a mild ruckus. I drove, and all went well. Hope to do the same on all future trips to the base ... possibly minus too many more ruckuses (ruckusi?).

By the way, this is the first thread I've read about anything, anywhere, where all respondents were unanimous. Many thanks!

I'm so proud of you Confounded. Good job!! I suspect FIL knows that he shouldn't be driving. He is probably relieved that you have taken this over and it sounds like MIL is relieved for sure. Thanks for letting us know.

My parents-in-laws' complex health care arrangements were made years ago, when both were still working, and before so many local bases closed.

We are definitely getting to the point where traveling so far for meds and groceries is impractical even if I take over all of the driving, simply because it is so wearing on them ... but for now, the savings are HUGE.

My MIL fully understands that changes will soon be necessary. My FIL cannot cope with this level of decision making. As for me, I'm willing to make the drive as along as it's feasible. At the same time, I'm also seeking viable alternatives.

Confounded

Pretty easy solution, for a few dollars their meds could be shipped UPS or FedEx. Surely both shippers do business with where they get their meds, don't they?

Zythrr ... no, I'm afraid the military pharmacies don't work that way. They do their own shipping for *eligible* patients -- which my in-laws are not. Yes, military pharmacies are weird. But the meds are free.

For now, I don't mind making the drive and taking care of the in-laws, as long as I'M the one doing the driving, and as long as they only need moderate care while on base (finding groceries, general running around, bringing the car to them, etc.).

The problem is that my FIL still thinks he can drive safely. He can't. The day I posted the OP, he'd just totally proven - again - that he cannot. (If only we could convince the DMV ...)

Taking/disabling their car is not an option. He's still got it too much together for that to work. More important, my MIL still needs the car. She limits her driving, but is still capable of driving locally, in good weather and by daylight. Hiding the car won't work, either, because her mobility is slightly impaired and she'd never be able to get to the car. She will *not* get tough with him, although she and I are on the same page as to his abilities.

All I can do is get tough myself, and stay tough. And I'm really grateful to the group for urging me to do so.

Oh my goodness, This is a very common situation and the cops in every town are well aware of it. They know the awkwardness families face. They know the denial. We had to deal with it, too. I wrote to the DMV about ten years prior to the actual date my poor mom got her driver's license taken away and I believe all of us kids did the exact same thing.

A few years later I was in the car (which was rare) the day my mom got a speeding ticket, driving in a school zone. I had to explain to my mom that a cop was behind us, repeated over and over "Please pull over, you must stop now!" and then, repeated to her over and over that a cop was standing outside the car. Then she wanted to know what the cop was asking. I had to explain that he wanted to see her license and registration which took repeated explanation on my part. I kept asking myself why the cop was so clueless as well, why did he not question why this woman needed explanations about this routine thing. Poor Mom! She paid the ticket when the bill arrived in the mail.

Years later, one more time I was with her when she was driving. Yes, it was truly terrifying. She stopped in the middle of the road for no reason, repeatedly. One of the offhand remarks she made was, "I am the best driver on the road!" I swore I would rather walk ten miles than ever get in with her again. We kids prayed for a smart cop, which was about all we could do since we'd gone through all the channels we could.

Mom had already wrecked the car she had and was now "renting" cars whenever she felt like it. One day, after years of this nonsense, my brother got a call from the town police saying my mom had been in a car wreck and they had taken her license and driven her home. No one else was hurt nor was anything significantly damaged. Mom was fined for the small damages incurred to the rental car and the other car. She paid. She was told under extreme remote conditions she might get her license back but the courts deliberately made it impossible for her.

I don't know what you but a lot depends on your local laws. Unfortunately many elders really want to hold onto their licenses to the point of denial.

Most of us have some aspect of aging we simply do not like to admit, even to ourselves. Perhaps we aren't as good at a task as we used to be, or we don't remember the things we learned in college, we can no longer speak that foreign language as well, or we can't do figures in our heads anymore nor thread a needle. Some women don't like admitting they are having hot flashes. Or we don't want to admit that our years ahead are fewer than the years that are behind us.

Confounded I am so glad you found a resolution! I feel for you. I LOVE this site and the support I found here.

What about phoning his primary care physician to see about giving him an exam? Is it his sight or his slow reactions while driving? It is dangerous having him on the road? Maybe the doc can give him eye exam and more and possibly write out an RX that he should not drive if he finds evidence of bad eyesight and more.

You can call the DMV and ask them the procedure in your state for reporting a family member who is medically impaired and should not be driving, they will take it from there. I had a friend who had to do it with her mother.

Well done to you, Confounded, for putting your foot down.

In terms of calling a halt to FIL's driving in general, what about a dashboard camera? If he thinks he's Nikki Lauder or something and he's already passed the tests okay, he may not object to a further way of showing what a brilliant driver he is. And then, since the camera doesn't lie, you'll have any evidence you need on record.

As a retired military spouse, there is no reason why with a military card and a signed form you cannot pick up meds. They can also be delivered by mail (see express-scripts.com). Shopping can be handled at the commissary with a military card (they can wait by the checkout while you put groceries in the cart) so they do not become too tired. If the MVD has passed your father-in-law to drive, then if he is still competent he gets to drive. You do not share why you think he should not be driving so I can only guess. I don't guess when it comes to driving habits. State your concerns in a letter to the MVD, and that is all you can do, besides not riding with him while he is driving. Does your mother-in-law drive? Try removing yourself from this equation and let the chips fall where they may. You cannot control every aspect of every life.

I remember a doctor sitting down with a patient and explaining to him how dangerous a driver( the patient) was and ask if the patient wanted to be responsible for hurting or worse killing someone especially a child.My own dad went down to the DMV and personally handed in his license as he felt unsafe driving.Just because ,as the doctor explained, they passed the DMV tests doe snot mean their reflexes are safe enough for driving.JUst "food for thought" Good luck

When the time was way past due, I simply said to my husband:

"From now on, when we are both in the car, I drive."

He never drove again.

Get this into your head, this is not a moral dilemma. it is a safety issue.

Safety first!

You have very right to set your boundaries. If he doesn't like it, he can stay home.

Do your in-laws want you to go with them? If yes, then what for? To stand in line?
Explain to them that you will be driving if you go. Be firm and smile. Once you have driven them, they will realize how much easier it is for them to relax and ride along. You might suggest it on the way home when they are tired and wore out!
If your FIL doesn't have any dementia, you should be able to reason with him.
If you can't, then you should refuse to go or become sick. You have a responsibility to yourself and your husband.

As far as your fil's meds go, has he called the va to see if they can be delivered via postal service.. My fil has his meds mailed to his house. Also how much can they possibly save if the drive is far, considering gas, were on the vehicle. If you believe his driving is dangerous I would call the dmv and talk to someone about your concerns. The last time I rode with my fil I kissed the ground when I got out of his car, and and kissed the ground (so to speak). I was afraid. He has since lost his driving priviledges. He failed his test.

Good luck to you, but make sure your husband speaks to him too.