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I try very hard to stay out of it all, it's all too confounding to me, if not absolutely infuriating at times.

A great for instance ... I had, in the back of my mind, .. perhaps Sunday after church, let's put in a call to MIL .. me and DH .. go out there, pick her up and go to our favorite seafood dive, for a sandwich .. that will give her a bit of an outing .. that isn't medical related and some companionship in the two of us, in a visit.

I hadn't said anything yet .. hadn't had the opportunity.

Then DH informed me that he has a meeting after church on Sunday (our church hasn't had a pastor in over a year .. and the search is on, .. search committee, of which he is an integral part .. and one of the candidates is to be preaching this Sunday and that specific candidate has asked to have a meeting after church on Sunday .. not only do we have questions for him, as a candidate, but he has questions for us .. as a church congregation).

So .. going to get MIL after church for a sandwich. That's out.

These kinds of things .. cooking up something where it can be just a congenial visit .. it's, more times than not, conjured up by me. DH .. he goes in crises .. (her not feeling well, .. her AC quit working, her toilet won't stop running, that kinda thing) .. but to conjure up a "hey let's just go visit with her, and have her out for a bit", that's usually me.

That's the kind of relationship I foresee having with her. It's the one I'd like to have going forward. We visit .. and enjoy her .. and her us. And all this other *stuff* that goes on .. is not first and foremost on the radar in that setting.

Nope. Not to be.

Even that, confounds me. It's not my mother! Why am I the one that comes up with a means of being able to figure a way to facilitate a visit . just a simple visit. Why? Why doesn't her son come up with it?

He doesn't.

It's not satisfactory to me ... (even though the woman pizzes me off at times, to the very core of my soul) .. it's not satisfactory to me, to just leave her be, ignored.

I don't care to hop into the care-giving role, EVER AGAIN .. but .. to just leave her be, ignored. That doesn't sit well with me.

Yes, I could go get her myself, and go out and have a sandwich for lunch with her. But I don't want to, not all on my own .. it's not my mother and her son wouldn't be there, and if he doesn't care enough to make it happen .. then I'm certainly not gonna forge those waters.

For myself, .. I don't know about these things .. not having lived it myself. But I sorta wish she'd make up her mind one way or the other. Do you want to live and have any semblance of quality of life? If you do, then damnit .. quit all the b/s with not taking your meds, not eating properly . not hydrating .. not doing the things you need to do. Knock it the hell off .. enough already!

Do you NOT want to live .. are you ready to check out .. then quit with all the other b/s .. and make up your mind.

Quit yanking our chains.

Like another poster wrote about her husband's mom . and the decision she made to forgo all treatment .. and go ahead and die. That she resented the woman .. for all the stress the mother put on her husband and the SIL's in the family .. in the decisions the woman made.

I can so relate. SO MUCH! I resent it.

I hate even saying that, because I haven't walked in those shoes. I haven't had to stare down the barrel of the end of my life.

But I have to believe I WILL NOT BE THIS DIFFICULT TO DEAL WITH!!!!!

And I certainly don't have, in one my daughters .. a SIL .. that is the "unstoppable force". Someone that will fight all these battles to try to keep me alive. I think if I did, I'd be telling the daughter and I'd mean it, .. leave me the hell alone .. if you want to come visit me and .. VISIT .. and enjoy my company and me enjoy yours .. come on .. would love to have you .. but I AM DONE with you running circles around me with all the *one more this, one more that, one more doctor, one more pill, one more gadget .. leave me the hell alone with all that!".

I just get so absolutely at the end of my rope with it all. I do so much better, myself .. internally ........... when I can distance from it all.
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Gotta admit, I'm addicted to this thread too! Not that I want anything bad to happen MIL, but I would sure like to see that Dh and SIL finally wise up and rise up to the task and get their Mom into a safe living environment and then the family could all go on to have a happy relationship with the Mom, then the Grandkids could all visit, One Big Happy Family! Now That would be Happy, Fairy Tale like Ending! And given half the chance (and the right sales tactics), MIL might really be happy in a New Senior minded apartment. It's all in the packaging!

And They Lived Happily Ever After!!! But let's not kidding ourselves, it's gonna take a big medical crisis of epic proportions to make the Queen Narcisita leave her Castle. THEN, I want you see how Dh and SIL handle the situation. I Pray MIL doesn't end up with Catastrophic Life Altering Deficits such as Stroke or an amputation, or Worse yet, dead, and her children end up feeling like they could have more to Circumvented it all! It's just so Sad!

Stay tuned for another Episode of: AS THE STOMACH TURNS.........
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SIL -- unstoppable force
MIL - immovable object
And DH hoping to not have to take action involving either
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Oh crikey.
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Oh and on a side note. Hearing from SIL today .. another specialist on tap for MIL, at SIL's direction, sounds like.

SIL reporting that she'd started this week with what felt like a possible UTI in herself .. and that she too experienced the brain fog .. like her mother .. and how scary that was .. and how she so can relate to how frightening that must've been for her mom, now that she too, has had that experience herself.

She then goes on to say that her doc recommended she see a gyno-urologist .. (not sure why, when she hasn't had a UTI .. she reports .. for 10 plus years). But okay. And then she goes on to tell me that she's going to ck with the PCP to see if they can recommend a good one for MIL .. that she seems prone for the above .. and so they may need to look into that.

One more doc, one more this, one more that. Oookay.

Hope she has some way invented to teleport her mom to all these appointments she thinks need to be seen to.
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I did respond .. a few mins back. I guess you guys missed it..??....no drama to report .. not yet anyway.
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Hoping - but maybe there is a lot of drama mixed in with whatever illness is present. Narcs have to make the "best" of any situation to get the needed attention.
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No Golden, I was expecting that when YDD took her it would show she needed to be hospitalized ASAP as in today. Instead Dorker and YDD went out for sushi. MIL back at home I imagine....managing. No mention of side trips requested by MIL of YDD. The fatigue possibly kept that in check.
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I dunno .. turns out it wasn't an "xray" but a CT scan. Who knew?

Don't know why ...

Not sure who got their wires crossed, or if it changed, .. maybe .. not sure at all, how that happened.

Surprise to MIL apparently, but okay .. that's what we'll do. This reported by ydd. Ydd says of her g'ma "she'd never had one of those before".

Ahem ....!!!!...... she most certainly has ... she had one in July when hospitalized! She's had them before that I've been the one to cart her azz around to get. WTH?!??!?! She's never had a CT Scan!!!! She most certainly has! I don't know why, .. crazy ole bat .. (doesn't matter, CT/MRI/Xray .. doesn't matter .. whatever).

I don't know how these things work. I guess .. (what do I know though) .. if the tech who does these things .. if they see something startling and cause for immediate concern, .. they then route the patient to the ER ...???... I don't know. Maybe not, maybe it doesn't get read at all until later, . .and if there is something startling and of an urgent nature, the patient then gets a phone call. I don't know how it works.

MIL was not kept. She has been deposited at her home.

I was surprised to learn that she was, for the most part, ready .. when ydd arrived. That's new. I was always having to rush her along, like you would a school kid .. a school kid that is too easily distracted. Doesn't sound like ydd had to do much of that. She had to go load the walker into the backseat of MIL's car, let MIL's dog out one last time .. and off they went. Ydd said the imaging place only kept them waiting about 10 mins, and they took MIL to the back.

Finished w/her there, and then MIL wanted to go run by the bank to cash a check .. so she could have some cash on hand .. they did that. Then she wanted to go to the grocery .. (oh no!), .. and ydd asked her what is it she needs from the grocery .. (I think ydd would've headed that off it were a lengthy list, or a list of *oh I don't know, I just need to meander around*). But MIL only needed coffee cream, Lactaid .. and lunch meat from the deli. Ydd says they made their way into the store, both of them, she left MIL at the deli counter for lunch meat, and she zoomed to the dairy counter and got the Lactaid and the coffee cream. Wahlaa ...!!!....done, time to go home now.

Ydd says that MIL is SO SO SO SO SLOW .. and that it wiped her out .. the above activity .. that MIL was wiped out before they even left, having just gotten dressed and ready .. but the above activity .. she was wiped out and barely could go another step.

I guess if there is cause for alarm, she will be notified.

Not sure why it changed from xray to CT .. but whatever.
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I didn't think we knew yet. Did I miss that somewhere?
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You handled the issue with YDD so well. Such a lady you are Dorker. I'm wanting to ship the dog to the SIL daughter or some other such punishment you could give SIL for taking this to the next generation. Thank you for letting us know that the Xray didn't land MIL in the hospital immediately.
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I am here too...waiting for the results.
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I too am a Dorker addict. I thought it was just me!

Waiting to hear about the xray. I think you're handling this all wonderfully, my dear.
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Believe me, I'd rather not be living this *As the Stomach Turns* daily stupid/idiotic melodrama. These are all people I care about .. even confounding, maddening SIL.

I do, .. in spite of it all ... I do feel for her, at least from the respect that she loves her mother dearly ... (I suppose) ... and is managing as best she can from afar.

I happen to think she, as well as DH could do a HELLUVA SIGHT better. BOTH OF THEM! But I realize that I can't control what they do, anymore than I can what MIL does.

The struggle is very real, just trying to "control" me, in all of this stupid madness.

It was interesting this morning having just a brief chat with ydd .. before she left, .. kind of cautioning her that while I think it is very sweet of her, and honorable that she is a "good person" and wants to help .. that she is going to have to guard that closely. That her aunt (SIL) will use her, abuse her and spit her out, in pursuit of MIL and all that is her situation .. and that is the very reason I have backed away from it all. That MIL refuses to follow through on the numerous trips to varying specialties and the advice given .. and it repeatedly falls apart, .. and I am fed up. She understands that and said, as I was saying it, "I know, and she doesn't take her meds, and eat right, I know" (not in an angry tone, but in a tone that she is familiar with that scene having worked in a retirement home).

She then expressing how she is very aware she will need to guard the whole process .. as she remembers well, the 2 and 3 trips weekly to the grocery with slow slow slow g'ma .. (because g'ma wants to go .. yes ydd or me, or the grocery can deliver, or her son .. any of us can go FOR HER .. but no .. she wants to go) .. and so YDD remembering well, the having been roped into that scene, along w/the 5 other stops along the way .. and the whole day gone. And the frustration that entailed. She is aware. She says she wants to help "some" .. but that she will not allow it to get to the point she is being used and abused. As she put it, "She's my g'ma and I love her, . I want to help, but she's going to have to be reasonable, she and her daughter both".

"Reasonable" not the middle name for either MIL or SIL. Not at all.

And then on another note, she began telling me about a long conversation she had with MIL's neighbor (the 30 something yo that travels a lot with her husband, and then ydd goes and stays at their house to dog-sit for them). That the neighbor was expressing to ydd that she has noticed a difference in MIL, that she seems more disoriented than she used to be.

YDD of course remembering all the hullabaloo from the last hospitalization .. then brought neighbor up to speed, as to confusion/disorientation and elderly and UTI's ..

I guess (but I expressed otherwise to YDD) .. it seems that maybe YDD .. aware also . of that whole scene, UTI/confusion/disorientation .. and maybe relates it all, hangs it all, on that last dx of same. I told YDD .. "I know that is a fact, . .one I never disputed .. but .. I think there is a bigger picture, and that is ............. MIL is very much not thinking clearly anymore, .. her judgement is impaired, all the time, even outside of any UTI that is an issue".

YDD agreed that is yes, the case.

But I thought it was interesting that even the neighbor remarks on the fact, she too, sees in MIL .. some disorientation.

Disorientation that SIL would no doubt, hang on a UTI .. and that's the end of the story.

Leaving now, to go eat sushi lunch with YDD, who has finished with her errand for MIL for the day. She and I both, absolutely craving sushi today .. so we'll go satisfy that craving, both of us.

I'm sure if there's anything earth-shattering to report from today's events, the next saga of "As the Stomach Turns" .. will resume. Sadly.
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Dorker - i'm a junkie too - because your situation so resonates. How many of us have in our families stubborn elders like your MIL and no one in the family will stand up to them, but the situation limps along and resentment building until finally the medical crisis hits. Stay out of it. If YDD complains - tell her she should feel free to step out of it too. Shame on SIL.
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Dorker, if I may say so, it sounds to me like your husband is enmeshed with his mommy and that you could benefit from reading the book, When He's Married to Mom which is about wives winning back their mom enmeshed men.
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I'm a Dorker junkie, too...I come back to this board so often to see if there are any updates.

If this board had annual awards, this thread would be up for multiple nominations, I'm sure!
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Every day--just more and more....I feel like a Dorker junkie, waiting to see what's in store today (I mean that in a nice way, your situation has drawn a lot of us in--and out of frustration for YOU we keep coming back!)

OBVIOUSLY MIL has some very serious cognitive issues. Saying "she's done with all this chit" and then pressuring, cajoling, fussing at people to get attention and rides and Dr's appts, makes you realize she's using that "I'm done" line to "terrify" you and keep you in line. (My mother's ONLY go-to for discipline with us kids was "Well, I'll just kill myself, then how will you all feel?) Your MIL is doing the same thing!

IF she truly was "done" she'd completely quit all her meds and drs appts. Lay down and give up. You know she's not going to do that. Where's the FUN?

My mom only quit saying that to me when on my 30th birthday--she made the comment "Oh, I am just going to kill myself and then all of you will finally appreciate me". Something in me snapped and I said, "Ok then, but please don't leave a mess behind." She looked so shocked. I don't think she realized she'd been saying that for YEARS. She said it the other day--how nobody would even miss her if she died (and my thought is "IF??????") So I wasn't immediately telling her that yes, we'd all miss her, I was sitting there thinking "Dear Heavens, she's 88, she wants to live forever..." And finally I said, "Mom, nobody lives forever, and frankly, how many friends have you lost over the past few years? A dozen or more, at least. People die, mom, and life has to go on for the rest of us. Shoot, if I died tomorrow, my kids would be sad for about 20 minutes and then they'd be FINE".

That's not what she wanted to hear.

I feel for you, so deeply. Your hubby has not only refused to be more helpful with MIL, it actually sounds like he's LESS. Probably b/c he is now seeing what you have been doing and doesn't want to so it himself. He's been enabling SIL to manage it all and he's been busy in the background. Yet, he just doesn't have the courage to pick up his mother, install her in some kind of NH and let all her "issues" be covered in ONE facility. And you know he never will.

Well, I hope that this dreaded chest x-ray reveals something worth hospitalizing her for. Then maybe you can begin the facilitating of moving her to where she needs to be. (She's "Done" with all the chit, but she doesn't want too much radiation.....I'm laughing at that!)

I don't drink either. So, I get the chocolate "thing". Once my hubby and I had a fight(ish) and he came home from work, opened the front door and tossed a really quality candy bar up the stairs and waited...to see if I'd let him in. It became a family joke.

Hang on.....hold tight to the new toughness.
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Dorker - a couple posts back you pondered about why Mil is suddenly willing to leave her house, when she's "done with it all", to attend PT appointments.

I don't want to borrow trouble AND it's not the immediate issue that this chest X-ray and its follow up appointment is - but the minute I read what you wrote I immediately had this thought by way of my self diagnosed PTSD flashbacks - because it will involve someone else tending to her.

Not of course, meaning the physical therapist- but the individual roped into driving the MIL Taxi. I think, whether it is a conscious decision on mil part or not - this is an opportunity for her narcissistic beast to be fed attention. WITH all the bonus opportunities to "stop here, stop there, just run in and xyz, just go pick up xyz..." And on it goes.
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My MIL (no dementia) insisted on staying in her house with severe edema and swelling (result of liver failure). This included when she was falling on a semi-daily basis, and then using her alert pendant to call 911 to help her get up.
A couple times she did end up at the hospital and before they released her they asked if she had someone at home. She said yes - and she meant her little chihuahua. After that she refused to go to the hospital. We figured there was nothing we could, since she was mentally competent, and that at some point she would fall and break her hip or hit her head. If she had gone to the hospital we had all agreed we would tell the social worker there was no one at home to help her.

What actually happened was that her liver and kidneys both started to fail completely and she decided to forgo treatment and was given just a short tiime to live. My husband and I ended up flying out there to help her those last 2-3 weeks, with my 2 SILs helping too, along with some home health care aids for a few hours every day. Fortunately she went rather quickly, as we couldn't have handled any more than that. My back is bad, so my husband had to deal with all the physical stuff.

She was a dear woman, but extremely stubborn. Refused to use depends even though she could barely walk (and then couldn't walk), refused to use a bedside commode and insisted on being taken to the bathroom (FREQUENTLY) which meant there was no rest for her caregivers.

She accomplished what she wanted - she died in her own home. But I am still resentful of the worry and stress she put my husband and SILs through to accomplish that. If she had been my mom I would have been more blunt about what she was doing to them, but I had to back off and be emotionally supportive.

I guess my point is we had to just accept that she could really hurt herself because of the decisions she was making. We had no control. THat separation was a bit easier because we lived far away and she couldn't depend on us to help out.
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Dorker, you nailed it. DH wants it to just go on without him being majorly involved until "the light switch flips off and MIL goes to the clouds". Unfortunately, there is frequently (as shown here) a LOT before that happens. My hubs won't go to therapist either. Therapist told me that the only changes then would have to be mine and likely be fought in passive aggressive ways. True that. So I do the things that I feel comfortable doing - visit for dinner or brief hello - and don't get involved organizing care, doing tax returns, pay bills without information since my hubs offered to get involved in that - so far only 1 visit in 6 months and no monthly involvement. At some point, things change. My MIL ended up in assisted living when she got a catheter she could not maintain with her advancing Parkinson's. My FIL will have a tipping point with his COPD or have another stroke and his sons will have to deal with it and if they don't have proper information or tools, too bad. Both my parents are dead now, but that did not make me fully available to manage MIL and FIL despite MIL's best attempts. Take care of your needs, then grands and daughters. Your DH needs if they are NOT MIL related to make his life easier (rather make him not have to do hard things with mommy). Peace to you.
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CTTN55, like you, I'm not real sure how helpful that is. I do talk with him about all this and he confirms that I am not crazy that nothing I say about it all is out of line .. that my expectations for it all, are realistic and that I am dealing with some folks here who are being unreasonable.

He would like for me to bring DH in on some of these sessions.

Of course, DH refuses to go.

Of course he would. He already knows this whole situation is about as effed up as a can of worms .. and he doesn't need to hear it from an outside 3rd party ..

He might actually have to do something different if he did. He won't go.

His answer: "we heard you, .. we hear you . you're done with all the b'chit running around and doc appts and procedures and tests .. and all the crap that has you running the damn roads all the time .. we heard you .. you don't have to do that anymore .. we understand, you're done with it .. we got it .. so .. just don't worry about it, .. we're going to allow mother what she wants .. even to her own peril .. if she wants to stay in HER OWN HOME .. that's what we're going to try to let her do .. so don't worry about it, nobody is asking you to do it anymore .. ".

That's his answer.

And I do find it rather confounding .. the other day .. when I'd said to DH that his mother has cancelled the chest xray .. and the cardio consult .. both ordered as a result of her shortness of breath .. and so forth. And him knowingly nodding his head in acknowledgement with the whole "she's done, why run to all these doctors .. she's done .. she doesn't want to be here anymore, she's so ready to go ... she's done with all that b'chit .. done with it .... what does she hope to achieve .. she so wants to go already .. just wants to be done with all this". Him with the mindset that she's done .. he .. apparently in agreement .. yep ... she NEEDS TO CANCEL all that crap .. she says she wants to GO .. so why keep running to all these docs.

When I then said to him, "well it was ordered because she may be filling with fluids, God knows her legs/ankles looked scary .. and that was even after she'd been to the doctor with shortness of breath and her here not taking her diuretic .. ".

Him now, still nodding in acknowledgement .. maybe even a little annoyed at the whole topic at hand .. by now .. and again, "yep, done with it .. she doesn't want to do all this crap .. no need to keep running to doctors if you're done .. and she says she's done".

So ...

I told him last night, especially since the previous dialogue he was firmly entrenched in .. apparent agreement .. *she's done with all this running to docs, etc* .. told him last night that SIL had beckoned ydd into service for that chest xray and that ydd is not real happy about it.

He didn't say anything .. not a word. Not a single word.

See, .. he wants to remain on the periphery of it all .. and just continue status quo.

SIL .. I guess .. wants to keep her mom firmly entrenched in her home (her mother's want) and will move heaven and earth to keep that in place.

DH .. just doesn't wanna get in the muck and mire of it all, and be left alone to live his life as he does presently without having to wade through it all too much. Other than when he is called upon to "come hold my hand, I don't feel well", which he then does do.
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Guestshopadmin, GOOD GOOD GOOD for your son, to have the wherewithall to answer appropriately. GOOD!!!!!!!!!

I can only hope that ydd on this end, will eventually do the same. Our daughters, all 3 of them, do love their g'mother. Their g'mother was very good to them .. not monetarily (she never had it to do) .. but in spending quality time with them as they grew up.

Do each of them understand the finer points of all that is ongoing with this whole mess. Not sure really. I'm not sure anyone can understand the finer points of it all, til they have to live it themselves.

I can say that ydd .. that specific daughter ... she has been pressed into service more than the other daughters .. and has experienced first hand .. and the frustration thereof and has expressed same .. the "can we stop here, and can we go run by .. and can you pick up and bring it back to me .. and can we run by thus and so", .. her kind enough to have agreed to .. let's say ..go take MIL to the grocery (something she will no longer do .. she will .. go get for g'mother .. but she will not go pick up g'mother and take her .. it takes too long .. and her beef is that point precisely .. I'm not going to spend my entire day in service to this chit.

She has heard my beefs on it all ... they all have .. more than they'd like I'm sure. Does she "agree" with my approach? I don't know .. and I haven't asked her. Does she find MIL to be confounding and annoying .. absolutely.

The other two daughters .. they haven't been pressed into service as much. DD .. mother of twins .. used to go clean house for MIL .. to earn a few dollars. But DD .. soon found it was a paid visit .. she as spending her time there visiting .. and not cleaning .. and then would need to, after MIL has occupied her whole time there visiting .. she'd then need to hop to and clean .. all the while I was here watching her daughter for her . and this was turning into an all day unpaid event for me .. and I wasn't pleased with that arrangement and said so, nor was DD pleased with the fact, what should take no more than 2 or 3 hours was taking all day. She too, backed away .. but .. also because she got a job .. and no longer had the time.

Oldest daughter .. as I said of her, she is not a particularly nurturing sort .. she loves animals of all kinds ... (even reptilian types .. Oh dear LORD!!!!!!, my worst nightmare). She was pressed into service in all this one time ... years and years ago .. MIL to have some procedure where she'd be gone all day .. and SIL facilitating said visit. No one to watch the dog and let the dog in and out. Oldest daughter beckoned.

Oldest daughter after a few hours there, then began to phone me (not sure where I was that I wasn't the one in the front of all this) .. "when are they going to be done, I have other things to do here than to sit and watch this damned dog". Phoning me repeatedly .. me referring her to her aunt (SIL) .. "ask her, I'm not with them, I don't know". Her then phoning SIL . and the same impatient queries.

Oldest daughter hasn't been asked since, to attend to anything as to do with MIL and her needs. That was years ago.

The only hope SIL has in dd's here .. is the ydd .. and ydd .. I suspect .. will not have her life overtaken with this need .. she will help (because she is a good person). but I don't expect she will tolerate a lot of it.
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Dorker, you mentioned earlier that you had a therapist appointment. Just curious -- what does the therapist say about all of this? (So often these therapists don't appear to be very helpful -- just wondering how helpful yours is.)
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Dorker, I really didn't phrase my question earlier well and it was kinda snarky. I'm sorry to you. I think SIL approached your daughter because DH has already told her no. I understand your irritation. My son is in college in another city - he was set to start an internship last summer and had 2 weeks between classes and the internship before he started. I have a friend in that city who is going through cancer treatment. It's important to note that T is a narcissist who uses people up and moves on to the next one. I personally gave her info on Doctors that make house calls, contact info for lawyers to file disability, and other local resources to help get rides etc. When I was going through radiation treatment and surgery for cancer, her answer was to send me an email card. No problem, just set my stage for involvement. When she had lunch with son and friend in May, the friend she has used up with running errands and doing odd jobs around house promising to pay and THEN NEVER PAYING, T told my son he could spend the 2 weeks running errands for her and driving her around. Son (a high-functioning autistic) is not easily manipulated and does have limited social skills sometimes:) He told her that he was not available. T pressed him with her needs - he finally told her that Uber was always an option, the American Cancer Society and her doctors could help arrange things, and that he could not lift her and manage wheelchair because she was too heavy and mobility limited...T has given my son cards most years for birthday and Christmas, a few gifts, but they are not buddies. When he moved to her city, T did not suggest getting together, movies, etc. because she was working and too busy. Now that she needs help, and has used up her widowed SIL and friends with unpaid caregiver demands, she is trying to move on to my son. Your daughter is smart - she watched why you made the change - and don't think MIL didn't mention to SIL that your daughter was off work this week. Who else would have given SIL the idea that daughter was even available to take MIL? sorry again, but the congestive heart failure is in stage C or D by now (only runs A-D) and MIL is tottering toward the cliff.
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Just as another note of interest to me, as I rant/vent here. (heading to see/visit my dad shortly... 79 yo ... and not as compromised as MIL, but does have his problems also with health issues).

Don't know why these things pop into my head and serve to only fuel more frustration with it all, ....

I was pondering last week when MIL was here under our roof to weather the hurricane that passed by. Of course, .. after the hurricane had passed, and almost nobody had power here ..

She had originally had a chest xray scheduled for Monday (that's what the PCP scheduled for her). But the imaging place called to reschedule her, til Thursday .. everyone aware the storm was coming and they were to be closing their offices.   

So MIL here at my house, and pondering that upcoming chest xray .. and cardio consult visit . both .. visits/appointments she didn't want to go to. Her saying out loud, "I'm just not able to do all this .. all this running around to doctors and appointments, .. at this point ... my health is such ... It has to be something there is just no way out of it .... I really am just not able to do all this ... it takes everything I have in me, just to get up and get dressed and get ready".

These are the words she was saying to me,. ... this as it was being bandied about whether to keep said appointment for chest x-ray ... all while .. it was apparent that the place was having power problems/phone problems, couldn't reach them.

She then said this, .. which even at the time confounded me, "you know .. I had a chest xray when I was in the hospital . they gave me one there ... that was back in July ... I don't know why they can't pull that chest xray if they need a chest xray .. take a look at that one .. I just had one .. and you know it was SIL that asked me that .. I hadn't even thought of it ... but she reminded me that I just had a chest xray back in July when I was in the hospital and she was questioning why they want another one, .. telling me, *you know all that radiation* isn't good for you, why did they want you to have another one so soon .. and that got me thinking .. yea .. I just had one, pull up the one I had in July when I was in the hospital".

To that I responded (confounds me how SIL plays MD from afar and 2nd guessing what goes on here) .. I responded to MIL: "Well wasn't this a chest xray that was ordered by the PCP as a result of that visit where you were short of breath .. where they had you breathe hard into that meter thing and you didn't meet the mark they were looking for, and they heard some wheezing in your lungs .. isn't that why they want you to have a chest xray?".

MIL then says: "Well I just had one in July ... they can look at that one if they need to look at an xray of my chest, you know all that radiation isn't good for you".

I then said to her: "But .. they did a chest xray in the hospital, were you short of breath then .. or is that new?".

(cognitive issues)

Her answering: "Oh I don't know .. you know .. you get to be my age .. and people ask you *how do you feel* .. well I feel like chit .. it's a progressive thing .. gradually you begin to feel bad .. this doesn't work right, that doesn't work right .. it's all ... it's all too much".

I gave up. Not getting any deeper in the whole thing. No real clear answer to my question and my trying to draw her attention to the fact that this newest chest xray . it's being asked of you because you are complaining of shortness of breath. Now you want to cancel it, .. because (said with exaggerated tone on my part) .. YOU ALREADY HAD ONE .. but you weren't having these symptoms at that time! And now you want to cancel it, because your daughter who wants to play MD from afar ... her fully aware the PCP told her, his words, to her ears .. "she isn't well, .. she's got a lot going on" .. and yet SIL wants to tell you .. "all this radiation isn't good for you".

Dealing with a bunch of damned lunatics here is what this all is.
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Dorker - I so understand why you are angry. Take a deep breath and try to release the stress. This nonsense is going to keep happening. You COULD help DD say "no" when the SIL calls her again, as she will. "I'm sorry - I have something scheduled" and move on. SIL will probe to find out what it is and then pressure her to reschedule "Oh, you can do something with your friends another time, gma needs you" - just don't tell SIL what is scheduled (even if it is sitting in front of TV). SIL is going to run out of options.
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These are the kinds of things that keep me in a quandary over whether I'm just mean and uncaring.

OBVIOUSLY... I'm the only one of the notion here that she shouldn't be living alone, because I'm the ONLY one that has backed away from it all ..

SIL continuing to manage from afar ... like a maestro to an orchestra.

But no one stepping up to say to MIL .. ."this isn't working". Nope.

I know how this all plays out, had a front row seat for far too long. MIL mentions having rescheduled the chest xray .. to SIL, who cks on her 3 and 4 x's daily. SIL then goes into a tailspin, "mother how will you get there, .. who can I call to help you to get there, .. mother you can't do that alone, you need to be using your walker to get around, and you can't manage that walker and the car .. I have to get someone to help you, who do you think I should ask".

(btw, not that it matters, but when MIl stayed here for the storm refuge, walker was here, but rarely utilized .. no, I didn't harangue on it .. don't give as chit anymore)

I've seen all this: MIL ... "Daughter, I am fine, now I will manage this, don't you worry about it, now leave it alone .. it's just up the road from me, .. I'll be fine .. now don't you go bothering anyone with this".

SIL: "No, now mother .. it's really not safe .. you really haven't gotten the hang of the whole taking your walker along and using it, and it's not safe for you to be walking around with a cane .. you really needs someone to go assist you .. and help you .. I wonder what brother's ydd is doing, maybe I'll ck with her, maybe the housekeeper".

MIL: DAUGHTER!!!!!!!!!! Leave this alone .. now I will be fine here. I can manage this, now leave it alone!

(all the while let's remember, she was advised not to drive, until completing a program for same, and a doctor signs off on it, but SIL saw fit, when last here to circumvent that whole process and make sure that was no longer a requirement. When I questioned that, I was told, by SIL *oh that was just the UTI .. she doesn't need a driving program .. the neuro doc said so .. *a neuro doc that has never met her* nor tested her* ... ALSO .... the PT that was coming to MIL's house .. dismissed by MIL .. after I had suggested they work with her on navigating around with her walker and driving since she's now obviously going to be left alone to drive .. absent the above recommendation. But .. MIL dispenses with at home PT. Let's remember, all this plays out in my memory).

So SIL leaves, .. assuring "she's fine, she can manage, she can drive .. she'll be okay".

THEN WHY THE HELL ARE YOU DEPLOYING OTHERS IN SERVICE TO GET HER ANY DAMN WHERE.

It infuriates me. Let's don't address the root of the whole thing, let's just .. as BarbBrooklyn put it so long ago in all this, let's just keep throwing teaspoons of water at a raging fire. That's the solution. Yea!

Now, the above backing and forthing between MIL and SIL over who will assist with transport, and MIL insisting she'll be fine .. leave it alone .. and SIL digging in just as hard that she has to now frantically summon someone into service for all this.

In the end (I've seen this .. far too many times) .. SIL will spin like a top in every direction til she bumps into someone she can summon into service. This time, ydd.

She then calls MIL "I talked to ydd and she wants to help you to get to the appointment so I told her to be there at "x" time".

MIL then: "I wish you wouldn't do that, why won't you leave people alone?. Alright, whatever, .. I'll see her tomorrow then".

MIL .. if she was in her right mind and completely cognitive and functional would go right behind her daughter and undo what her daughter did, phoning ydd .. "I'm sorry that so and so bugged you with all this, don't you worry about it, now I'll be just fine .. no problem here". And then let her daughter know to leave it the hell alone.

(but again, .. let's remember, last hospitalization .. they also wanted a full cognitive workup .. and that too, undone by SIL . not necessary .. neuro doc said so .. yes, same neuro doc that has never met MIL).

All of this , . in the forefront of my memory bank. Yes, I confronted SIL when she was last here, "what do you mean you aren't going to see to the cog assessment they wanted, .. that's what the staff neuro wanted, as follow up". SIL .. "oh that was just the UTI .. they really shouldn't be administering cog assessments on people in a hospital setting, it's far too stressful an environment .. they shouldn't base any baseline assessment while a person is confined to a hospital .. even the private neuro said so .. that they don't really take those into account .. and that it was just the UTI that compromised her abilities to think clearly, the private neuro .. he didn't think that was necessary".

A neuro doc that has never met MIL in his life. A NP in fact at the neuro doc office, which was the only practitioner available for an appt, MIL has never met that NP.

So .. do you see, why I'm nearly half crazy here .. or thinking I am.

I said months ago, that she shouldn't be living alone any longer. She isn't able to adequately care for herself .. she needs more help. Nope. She's fine, she can manage. A slide off the slope in it all and a hospitalization .. some of it all gets some attention by staff MD's .. and directions to address it. SIL swoops into town .. and undoes what the MD's recommend. And out of town she goes, .. with the whole notion of "She's fine, she can manage" ..

Only to then direct from afar .. as to the goings on in this end.

Like I said before .. for my own sanity I try to back away from all this with a 10' pole .. it only infuriates me to get to close to it all. But then .. as was the case yesterday . it lands squarely under my nose with daughter announcing . with some displeasure to her tone, that she has been beckoned into service by SIL .. from afar. Makes me livid. I mean it, really livid.

But I am powerless to do a damn thing to change any of it. Not one thing. You can see .. thru all of these posts the absolute craziness that ensues in all of this and my trying to get it all addressed as it should be, .. and one thing after another . after another ... after another .. let's just throw bandaids at a gaping wound .. continually.

I don't know because I haven't spoken to SIL at all, and won't be. No, she doesn't call me to ask if I've heard of so and so book she's reading ... or did I see such and such television program .. or have I ever tried so and so to eat, that they'd gone out to such and such and it was so good. Just conversational stuff. Nope. She also, thankfully, isn't bugging me about any of the above, and for that I am grateful.

I am so livid that I would be unkind to her if she did. And rightfully so.

Again, I won't triangulate into all of this .. it does no good. And ydd .. who is kinder than she needs to be .. would find fault in my interference. So I won't do it. She doesn't want to do this .. that was apparent. But she also is a .. as I said of her "go along, to get along sort".

However, . in the end .. she is a 24 yo with a life of her own .. and being pressed into service for geriatric issues is not going to be high on her list of things to do with her daily life. That won't be a solution either that SIL can rely on. Not in the end. And .. if ydd begins complaining .. I will most certainly direct her to her dad .. that HE needs to deal with his sister, before I do and say some things to her that are pretty harsh.

I don't know, having not spoken to SIL ... but I can imagine she's in a bit of a sticky wicket. There will be a follow up with PCP on Monday to discuss findings from the cardio consult he ordered (cancelled and never rescheduled) .. and the chest xray .. (cancelled but now on the radar again, for today ... ydd facilitating transport).

Don't know but that SIL has got to be in a near panic over what to do about the Monday appointment with PCP .. and how to get transport for same. I'm sure the same dialogue as was stated above, is ongoing .. MIL assuring to leave it alone, she'll be fine .. and SIL digging in just as hard that she has to find someone to get this done.

*****didn't SIL leave here with the assurance that the driving program wasn't needed .. isn't that the order of the day that SIL left town with .. am I crazy here ...???*****

I can imagine that has SIL spinning like a top in every direction. I don't know if she has pressed DH to do so, he hasn't mentioned it.

I know that it was mentioned that the housekeeper, her availability as to transport for doc visits . is really only Friday afternoons (presumption there, she is busy .. cleaning houses other days). So, that leaves out housekeeper .. at least to my knowledge ..

Will SIL attempt to press upon a neighbor ... ???....

The neighbors across the street from MIL .. the wife of that equation is retired .. so maybe .. who knows. MIL would be livid with her daughter if she does so .. "don't bother those people" .. but .. as you see above, SIL goes on about her biz of doing what she does .. and when it all works out that MIL then has transport, MIL doesn't go and undo it. She acquiesces.

Will also be interesting to see .. though at this point, I really truly don't want to see it .. it all just angers me .. and I try to stay away from it all. In talking with MIL yesterday she had asked of her home health nurse (who is now done w/the allotted home visits) .. can she get a referral submitted that MIL can now "go to" a PT place, her saying she realizes she has run the gamut of what PT can do for in an at home setting and will need to "GO" to a facility to get some work on gaining strength and so forth. Home health nurse agreed to do so.

So that too, if SIL is aware .. will be problematic. Not sure how SIL thinks that will be resolved. MIL .. I can imagine ... if she gets that referral for PT .. she will need to go once, maybe twice a week .. to a facility. How does SIL figure that one out.

And no, to ydd facilitating Monday's appt with the PCP.. ydd starts her new job Monday and she is ready ready ready .. has been ready .. has wished she didn't even take the week off from previous job . bored ..

And no . she won't be calling her new employer "listen, can I start on Tuesday instead .. my grandmother needs me to take her to the doctor". That's not going to happen. SIL presses her to do that, the answer will be no.

I would imagine there are transport services for people in MIL's shape .. in fact I know there are (don't know how they work, not going to do the legwork to determine that either) .. there may even be a transport/shuttle service, depending upon who MIL utilizes for PT .. but as a previous poster indicated .. I suspect MIL is above all that .. that's beneath her to have to depend on such. She's fine remember, she can manage.

Yes, I am still livid about it all, absolutely furious. But also I realize .. this is an adult ydd .. and she has to call her own shots with it all. For me to get involved, will only then find me angry with ydd .. who would resent my interfering .. her .. at least willing to be *helpful* to a degree anyway. So I will stay out of it, until .. SIL begins haranguing her into service and there's a whole lot more hullabaloo coming from ydd on it, and I'd be willing to bet that's coming. Ydd is not going to take kindly to being pressed into service on whatever her days off end up being with this new job (not yet known).

And all the while, SIL spinning like a top .. she also has to know .. she presses upon her brother too much and him get interruption constantly to his work day and his church activities and so forth .. he will .. she knows he will .. he went there, .. ever so gingerly and it didn't go well, with his mother. SIL knows, she presses him too hard with all this "need" .. he will push back .. and it won't be good. SIL will then be pressed to "let's get on the same page here, I can't manage mother, no wonder dorker stepped back from it all, the need is too great, it's damn time this gets addressed .. and one way or the other it gets resolved, . now either you bring yourself down here and manage it all, or you find a way to take her in up there and we convince mother that's what has to happen . or we get onto the page of whatever it is that has to occur for placement .. because this isn't going to be the status quo here that I can't even work for a damn living for running her to docs and appointments, and tests and procedures .. and picking up various and sundry things for her daily .. I don't have time for this". SIL knows that will be the result .. so I'm betting she is spinning out of control on her end .. knowing that her brother .. really .. he is a last resort .. an absolute last resort .. not wanting the above to occur. But what to do, what to do?
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I'm just sorry that it's going down this path.
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I don't see a problem with having a little chat with your D about not feeling badly if she can't be Narcissa's taxi service. There will be another ride request soon, to go to the PCP to discuss the x-ray, correct?

My mother tries to weasel rides from one of my adult children, and I've told him to not feel badly if he doesn't do it. My mother doesn't need to be taken places to use a coupon. And this son lives 25 minutes away in a neighboring city. (She asks him, because she knows I won't do it.)

I've also told her a couple of times that it's not fair to ask him. She seems to have (mostly) stopped the behavior.

I was thinking that Narcissa and my mother both think that using ride services or taxis are "beneath" them, don't you think? My mother probably thinks there is some sort of "status" to having an adult child drive her around. She probably thinks she's superior to someone who doesn't have a daughter slave handy.

I know she thinks herself superior and "independent" as compared to the people in the AL I showed her. When someone asked her if she was considering living there, she said, "Oh, I'm not ready to give up my independence!" And there she was, hardly able to walk...the "dependent" ones walked better than she did.

I'm beginning to consider telling the Golden Boy Brothers that it might be best to consider AL places near where one of THEM lives. Because then if there is a move to a nursing home, it will be an easier move. And that I don't think a nursing home near me is a good idea, because I won't have any financial control, as two of THEM will be the successor trustees and not me.

But of course none of the Golden Boys would want THAT. And neither would my mother, as long as she's capable of having any say. Sigh...
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