I've posted before about in-law care-giving. Aged mother in law, lives in same town.
We are at the tail end of a visit from sister in law from several states away. Sister in law has been here for 3 weeks caring for her mother. A much welcome respite.
It had been discussed, prior to her arrival here on the scene, she would be talking it over with her mother, to try and get her mom to come up to her home, for a stay of maybe a few months.
This, in my opinion, is absolutely essential, as I am expecting twin grand-children, due in about 1 month (if they don't come sooner, as is the case a lot of times with multiples pregnancies). The expectant mother also lives locally here, and has a 4 year old daughter. I will be on that front, helping .. as much as is needed. And not on the front with mother in law and care-giving, and have made that as obvious and apparent as I know how to make it. It would be great if mother in law would agree to go to her daughter's home (several states away) for a period of a few months .. and allow me the latitude to put my energies where I want them to be, on my daughter who will have had a c-section .. and my grand-daughter (4 years old) and new twin babies.
Nothing doing. Mother in law has dug in her heels, and will not hear of it, going to stay with her daughter for any period of time.
What are her reasons?
In mother in law's defense ... her daughter ... I don't even know how to describe it. I will say that when her daughter comes here to visit, she all but breathes for her mother and if she could find a way to do that, she'd do that too. She is the most nervous nelly, never sit down - ever ... worry wart, do everything, all the time .. person that I've ever encountered.
A great example, as I was taking her to the airport yesterday for her departure, . I reached into the fridge to grab myself a bottled water and shut the fridge and turned to walk away, as I've done for all of my 50 plus years living on this earth .. and she said to me, "Oh make sure that fridge shut". WTH???? Like I don't know how to shut a fridge? That's just a small, very small slice of what she is ... how she is.
She is so very hyper-vigilant, seeing to every minute details down to it's finest most minuscule point, fine tooth comb, questioning every point along the way, "should we do thus and so, but maybe if we do thus and so, then such and such will happen, maybe we should do it thus and so .. but then so and so might happen, maybe we shouldn't do thus and so, but do "x" "y" and "z" instead, but if we don't do it that way then ..........", on and on and on and on it goes. And usually in hyper warp speed, as to every single friggin thing.
If her mother moans .. "what's wrong mother?, why did you moan, are you alright?".
Mother: "Yes, I'm fine, I was just sighing out loud".
Sister: "Why did you sigh? Are you hurting, are you sure you're alright, why are you sighing what's the matter?"
Mother: "For God's sake __________________, I was just sighing, .. calm down, I'm fine".
Sister: "Are you sure, .. because if something is wrong you need to tell me".
Mother: "Everything is fine, I'm fine".
Sister: "Are you sure, we did a lot yesterday, did we do too much, maybe we shouldn't of gone to two doctors in one day .. was that too much for you, are you too tired now, maybe we need to move those other doctor appointments so we won't have two in one day, is that too much for you, for one day .. is that why you were sighing .. what's wrong, are you sure you're alright".
Hopefully that kinda gives a little bit of a snapshot of what goes on when sister is in the ring directing things.
So in mother in law's defense.. I do get it, why she wouldn't be chomping at the bit to go to her daughter's home.
BUT ....
The only experience she has with her daughter, in the last years as mother in law has aged and been unable to go anywhere much, has been the daughter coming here, periodically, for periods of about 3 weeks at a stretch. When her daughter comes here, she moves heaven and earth for her mother and then some, and doesn't sit down, doesn't stop .. the WHOLE ENTIRE TIME.
Is there a possibility maybe (as I said to mother in law, when she expressed that isn't happening - talking to me - her going to her daughters .. ever) .. could it be possible that maybe if you would go to where she lives .. she'd be more busy managing her own life in that setting than your's and she would get out of your backside .. and not be as hyper-drive-vigilant as you experience in her, when she's here, could that be possible.
The daughter is retired, lives several states away. Does come here, generally, every few months .. and stays for a period of about 3 weeks at a stretch. I wish I could make a list of everything the daughter did when here this last time, but it would take up the whole character allotment:
I don't know how they are in FL, but my personal experience with discharge planners here in Ga, they seem to really encourage/pressure the family to take the patient HOME and get HH to come do the PT, I'm guessing because it costs much less than sending the patient to inpatient rehab. Once MIL gets a whiff of that option, she WILL insist she is able to go home and will insist she will comply with HHPT. Don't allow her to do this! If SIL is stupid enough to let that happen, then she deserves to be mopping up another chitzapalooza.
There is some discussion as to release to Rehab. She is classified, as that all important "inpatient". That because there are not one but two infections at work .. I guess that qualifies under Medicare and they don't stick that stupid "outpatient" label on her.
The social worker there, approached SIL . and suggested, highly suggested .. that Rehab be the next stop . and SIL not opposed. Albeit . she'd like the chance to go by and take a gander at what are proposed sites for same. Social worker gave her a list, .. with rankings as to favorable or not . .and so on . .and a list that includes sites located near MIL's home.
SIL intends to go .. tomorrow I think, to a couple of them on the list, and take a look around. And she asked the social worker, to make sure that there are beds available, . once she zeroes in on what she finds suitable.
I asked SIL: "...and MIL .. is she balking at this?".
SIL tells it that MIL is .. somewhat more oriented now .. sans IV antibiotics coursing thru her system. That she'd been dreading approaching the topic with MIL when the social worker re-appeared with the requested lists. SIL introduced the social worker to MIL, then explained briefly . .that the social worker was there, to drop off a list of Rehab sites .. and so she'd be going to take a look at a few of them . .and that it's thought maybe that'd be the best place at discharge. MIL's response: "ok".
SIL herself, . "I don't know if that means she wasn't actually hearing me .. and said *ok* .. just because that's the thing to say . or if she's *ok* .. in the end, with that . I don't know".
YD and myself dropped off MIL's car there for SIL . so she can (if she will) go home. She needs to. We went in and visited all of about 20 minutes, and left.
MIL hasn't been made to get up yet .. so it's not known .. not yet anyway . how that will go. She has pee'd all over herself and the bedding several times. Supposed to be using a bedpan . but .. as MIL tells it .. "when the urge hits, that's it . it's too late .. there is no warning, no time to wait". I asked SIL if she should be catheterized and she said she asked that question and that no, . there is infection and they don't wanna do that. I asked if she can be put in Depends . and the answer to that was something about . "has to be authorized". Don't know what that means, didn't ask anymore about it.
I'm glad to be on the sidelines of all this.
There would've been a time I'd of been the one on the hunt for the "suitable" rehab site. I'd of then been on the broken busted azz road of .. "nothing is suitable" . and .. so .. they would be insulated from the real world of all this . and she'd of been brought home .. no qualms about it . yet again.
Such a difference it all makes, .. with me out of it. DH and his sister both are having to live it .. in your face .. and no insulation by Dorker being the step n fetcher in it all .. and SIL off in IL living her life . and DH churching and hunting . and Dorker over here screaming . "FOLKS THIS IS TOO MUCH TO HAVE TO DEAL WITH".
SIL began down the road of pondering how it is she ended up with a UTI .. there's been no chitapalooza ongoing. I then couldn't help myself, . "From what DH tells me, she hasn't bathed since you guys got back".
This brought about from SIL: "Oh she gave me a devil of a time at my house, .. I mean . she doesn't bathe anyway . more than maybe 2 x's a week . and it was down to like 1 x a week . and it was awful trying to get her to bathe .. I'd have to help her .. but she would give me a fit . not wanting to do it".
She went on to explain that at her house, . her master shower in her bathroom much too small, but she'd gotten some kinda xfer
I just had to look up that word also.
Definition of recalcitrant
1
: obstinately defiant of authority or restraint
2
a
: difficult to manage or operate
b
: not responsive to treatment
c
: RESISTANT
this subject is recalcitrant both to observation and to experiment
So sorry for sidetracking. But I so love learning a fancy new word!!!
Thank you, Countrymouse!
The only thing is, that Dorker's situation is just a tad more complicated than that. As nearly two years and 5,000 comments so far only go to show.
Dorker, the *next* time you're dealing with a recalcitrant mother in law I'm sure you'll be right on top if it, eh?
But ultimately, Dorker has stepped out of this horror show and has no dog in the game. ( Although she may have a dog in her home soon...,lol).
I just feel like her having any opinion in SIL's direction is going to incite anger/resentment on SIL's part and be counterproductive.
No, I get it. Totally. I just feel so strongly that now - right now - everything that has happened until this moment has created a perfect alignment of the stars.
If it’s ever gonna happen - happen without further drama and the further eroding of relationships between those involved- sans mil - it’s gotta happen now. I’d hate to see this - another opportunity- pizzed away while sil is looking for a flashlight.
Maybe the bug gets planted via dh. Or maybe via YD to dh to sil. Or DD via dh to sil. Even via social worker to sil.
Its just that given sils past preformance - even given just how worn out sil is right now - I’m betting sil is still gonna need a bit of a push. To do it. To make the dreaded call.
But if it’s gonna happened without further collateral damage its gotta be now. Or very , very soon. Before mil gets pumped full with enough antibiotics to resume her “I just want to go to my own house - me and my dog...”. Sil will collapse and give in. Again.
I hate to see - another - wasted opportunity.
The twin remark that I found so offensive, yep, no filters left and a brewing UTI on board. Makes sense to me now.
I really do sympathize with all involved. Doesn't/didn’t have to get to this point but it did. A lot of us have the holey T-shirt’s so no judgement from me.
Pretty positive SIL, if she’s realized where her Mom is in all this, what needs to happen, is overcome with guilt that she’s failed MIL. Simply because she’s been so hell bent on making MIL happy. Which is not gonna happen.
I am sure MIL is miserable and feels awful.
Hospitals are not good places for anyone with Dementia. Example: Dorker’s Stepmom!
Dorker, I know MIL has CHF along with other maladies, does she have AFIB as well?
I agree, I think Dorker is where she needs to be, on the sidelines. Not offering up suggestions or info unless asked.
That's DH's problem and he's seen the light.
Dorker backing out of care has led these two to EXPERIENCE their mom's decline, not just view it from afar.
Now - poochy? Dorker - are any eyes rolling your way? MIL in Nursing Home - you bring poochy for visits? Are you up for a spoiled somewhat incontinent dog?
The not showering. Another fun topic that I have way more experience with than I ever wanted.
Mil is not showering because she has “cognitive impairment”. The dreaded “D” word. Dementia.
Not showering is one of the first and most common signs that an aged individuals mind is deteriorating. Sure - mil has all kinds of ambulating and balance issues. Sure - right now mil is weak as a new born kitten. HOWEVER- mil was not so bad two weeks ago -
one week ago, even. If mil was
strong enough and mobile enough to get into a car and go to a restaurant and sit through dinner - back into the car, etc. - she was strong enough to have taken - fully assisted from Sil - a shower.
People are gonna want to put
lipstick on it and blame her balance and mobility. Even say “we were saving her strength for the outing”, “she was too tired after the dinner out” - whatever. Cause let’s face it - no one likes to admit their aged loved one refuses to shower. If mil was able to make that restaurant dinner out - there was a day - somewhere in the few prior to that dinner when mil was able to ambulate enough to sit on a shower chair - with sil doing all the rest of it.
But mil refused - and sil was/is too frickin’ worn out to argue the point. Perhaps even - that bit of atmospheric snarkyness between mil and sil stemmed from exactly
this type of argument- taking a
shower.
On the plus side- this is - in part - what has landed mil where she is. I say “plus side” because this has
occurred during a brief open window when sil is probably feeling a whole lot of tired, frustrated, depressed and even - angry.
Im not so mean as to imply that sil being all of the above is good. A “serves her right” type of thing. No. But... if sil is ever going to give in - give up, in her eyes - the time is now. Right now.
I KNOW you don’t want to be involved - I get it. But since no one this group can’t find their own azz with two hands and a flashlight- SOMEONE needs to plant the bug in SILs ear that its time - past time - to call it - and call in the professionals.
Hospice. Nursing home. Either. Both.
If MIL gets the req'd amount of inpatient hospital time to qualify for rehab (in a facility), will SIL allow it, despite how "sad" it might be? Maybe this time she will allow it, even if MIL is unhappy.
When I asked DH about that this morning .. his answer: "They can't get her into the shower and turned around and onto that chair, and she can't do it".
The obvious next question is, .. "and .. so ...???....has there been any consideration as to what to do ..??.... I mean .. people don't go on and on and on .. without bathing .. what has been the "plan" if any as to addressing that".
I didn't ask it, he wouldn't know . and .. not only that, I'm not about to sit over here and armchair QB .. as to what others do and don't do.
As I've long stated ... she needs to be in a facility, 24/7 supported care, where that issue .. is one that would be dealt with. And we all know how that has fallen as to any suggestion.
But I am curious .. I mean .. surely there wasn't a thought about and a presumption on anyone's part . "Well she'll just never bathe again .. we'll just wipe her down as best we can . and that's that".
Surely that wasn't what anyone thought as suitable going forward.
And .. also of note .. YD having gotten up in the middle of it all this morning, wanting to know how granny is . and of course, DH imparting to her, the goings on . and her answer at first, .. "Dad .. she can't be left alone anymore .. ya'll know that right?". His answer, 'oh yea, .. we both know that, .. SIL is well aware of it .. that dog though .. that dog .. even SIL said that dog is gonna be the death of her, .. no place is gonna take her dog and she can't bear to part with her dog'.
I didn't weigh in .. I don't have a horse in this race, but I do have my thoughts on the above.
YD then chimed in .. "no dad . she needs to be in a nursing home .... and there aren't ANY nursing homes that are gonna take a dog .. if you're in a nursing home .. you are there because you can't take care of yourself, much less a pet .. she doesn't even take care of him now .. SIL and B do .. not her ..".
Glad to hear it all coming from another peanut gallery and not mine.
The ambulance carted MIL off to the hospital last night . and DH and SIL .. rode to the hospital in DH's auto. And so .. SIL is presently at the hospital and no way to leave there.
YD is off work today, .. mentioned to DH when he was on the phone with SIL .. "if she needs us to, . YD is off work .. she and I will bring MIL's car to the hospital so she can leave if she'd like".
I did not offer to sit bedside, and I won't.
I will go in and say hi .. and extend my concerns, much as any other acquaintance might do .. but I won't sit bedside as I used to do.
Thus far .. that hasn't been answered as to whether SIL would like YD and myself to get the car there for her, so she can leave. I did hear DH encouraging her to not stay at night, that she needs to go home and rest, and I heard her respond that she hopes to do just that.
B is in charge of poochy at home .. and I guess, if need be, B could hop in the car and run go get SIL from the hospital.
Just .. offered the above, only from the standpoint of not wanting to be over here acting like I'm completely out to lunch as to what all has occurred .. and offer to help in some small way.
No, DD won't discount that remark as something that severs her's and granny's relationship .. she's all too aware, as we all are, . that MIl's brain ain't what it used to be and she says the wrong things, .. all too often.
The UTI will be cleared up, once again.....and then? Sil will have a meltdown like no other if she doesn't take care of herself.
I agree that MIL and SIL are probably very depressed about the fact that coming back to FL didn't make anything better at all. MIL, in fact, sounds much, much worse.
Hospice would be a godsend. I think MIL is going to do a pretty quick downward spiral.
As far as the rude remark about the twins--well they DID take a lot of the attention off of MIL and her life did change b/c of them.
Life is funny. My mother has like 40 great grandkids and the ONLY ONES she interested in are a set of twins, IVF product and little miracles--but altho she has stated to all and sundry that "twins run in our family" we do have to chuckle at her b/c these two darlings were created in a lab. If I told her how it "happened" she'd slap me into next week.
I hope DD lets that remark go. Twins are HARD. And life is in the exhausting stage for DD. I just hope that isn't the last conversation she ever has with MIL.
Hang in there, Dorker. We're here for you, whatever.
TRY to get SIL to not STAY AT THE HOSPITAL 24/7. She needs a break.
I guess there has been one round of IV antibiotic and another to come (Diverticulitis flare up as well as UTI) ... SIL reported that MIL is more oriented now.
Been using bed pan but they're to bring in bedside commode and PT to report in.
I guess we'll see if she's able to get up to use bedside commode.
Poor SIL ... her voice... hoarse ... likely shear exhaustion
Sounds like there was some at least small convo between she and he on the fact this can't continue .. SIL in over her head ...
At least there is a crack of light in that dialogue where it's always been flatly refused before
With regard to the choice being between 911 and " getting her in the car". Oy. My mantra is " If it's enough of an emergency for the ER, you need an ambulance. Otherwise you call your doc/wait til the AM and go to Urgent Care".
The choice here is between 911 ( professional evaluation) and leaving her be.
All this the wee hours and him wanting to sleep.
And as to asking MIL on calling 911. I got the sense from what they described as to her abilities ... lack thereof ... and so out of it .. so weak ...not even really with it ... I got the sense they could've asked her "do you want us to go dig a hole in the yard and shove you in it" and the answer would've been .. as it was with what they did ask...a mumbled ...barely audible ..head slung low "I dunno".
Uultimately DH and SIL debated whether to try to get her to the car on their own for transport or call 911.
MIL not a part of the convo .. her out of it mostly .. just kinda not all here. They determined they'd call 911.
I think they could've told her they were calling in a witch doc after they all sleep on it a day or two. It would've met with her mumbled ..barely audible ... "uhh.." not much more.
Who's got the dog?
Just keep breathing Dorker. Shoulder rubs to DH and SIL. Mind you, I honestly don't think they should be holding their breath, either. Clearly there's been a change but it doesn't necessarily mean... anything in particular.
The only few things he said after taking a fast shower and getting in bed.
A CT was done on MIL's gut to investigate the pain she described earlier in the day. Nothing found.
There is a UTI
He doesn't know what else will be determined as to what's wrong or what tests they want to run.
She still can't get up ... is maybe based in the fact she's so weak ...beyond anything either have seen before weak.
Somewhat still disoriented.
Mumbled something just as he was saying he has to go to sleep now ... that he told his sister "you know, if she's this weak, you're not gunna be able to take her home, right?" Said SIL answered yes she knew that this might be changing every thing.
I then asked out loud (though I know ... old folks .. it happens) ..."she hasn't had Chitapalooza... Wonder why she gets UTI's so much"
DH's response to that: "she hasn't showered since they got back here. Just little spit baths".
Disn't say it ..but...there's a reason right there. I can only guess she's gotten as I said of her ... even more frail..may be bathing now is too difficult..??...
Wondered as I then turned over to go to sleep ... how long was SIL as her caregiver... her staunch stance in all this ... how long was she gunna find that acceptable. They've been back now 2 weeks I think.
Interesting to note also. SIL was to go back for whatever the follow up was to be on her Vertigo .. scheduled appt today. Per DH she is having to cancel it.
SIL stayed there. DH came home.
I guess SIL asked MIL if she wanted 911 called because of MIL's stated wish to die at home. Dorker, if you say one thing to DH this week, suggest that hospice be gotten on board. That's the key to catching the cloud.
I'm not being snarky. If this lady is done with living, she needs to be on board with no 911.
That leaves B holding the fort at home. Don't get suckered into helping, Dorker! If the pee-stained bed wasn't changed, let SIL call the housekeeper. (I'm assuming B wouldn't be able to manage that without directions...or would he?)
On the topic of SIL being subdued the last time you saw her, I think it's exactly as others suggested -- she is now realizing that her FT caregiving role to MIL is permanent. She must have held out hope that her brother and Dorker (particularly Dorker) would start steppin' and fetchin' to her tune again once she got MIL to FL and she could plan on flying out of there and back to her life in IL.
Since MIL's happiness is the most important thing, SIL and B will remain in FL for the foreseeable future. MIL is just too special to go to a facility. And there won't be any summers off, as there were when she was working. She'll be working much harder as her mother's caregiver than she ever did in her school system job!
I'm sorry to hear of the weekend's events. Nothing to do but sit tight and see. Fingers crossed for all three of them.