I've posted before about in-law care-giving. Aged mother in law, lives in same town.

We are at the tail end of a visit from sister in law from several states away. Sister in law has been here for 3 weeks caring for her mother. A much welcome respite.

It had been discussed, prior to her arrival here on the scene, she would be talking it over with her mother, to try and get her mom to come up to her home, for a stay of maybe a few months.

This, in my opinion, is absolutely essential, as I am expecting twin grand-children, due in about 1 month (if they don't come sooner, as is the case a lot of times with multiples pregnancies). The expectant mother also lives locally here, and has a 4 year old daughter. I will be on that front, helping .. as much as is needed. And not on the front with mother in law and care-giving, and have made that as obvious and apparent as I know how to make it. It would be great if mother in law would agree to go to her daughter's home (several states away) for a period of a few months .. and allow me the latitude to put my energies where I want them to be, on my daughter who will have had a c-section .. and my grand-daughter (4 years old) and new twin babies.

Nothing doing. Mother in law has dug in her heels, and will not hear of it, going to stay with her daughter for any period of time.

What are her reasons?

In mother in law's defense ... her daughter ... I don't even know how to describe it. I will say that when her daughter comes here to visit, she all but breathes for her mother and if she could find a way to do that, she'd do that too. She is the most nervous nelly, never sit down - ever ... worry wart, do everything, all the time .. person that I've ever encountered.

A great example, as I was taking her to the airport yesterday for her departure, . I reached into the fridge to grab myself a bottled water and shut the fridge and turned to walk away, as I've done for all of my 50 plus years living on this earth .. and she said to me, "Oh make sure that fridge shut". WTH???? Like I don't know how to shut a fridge? That's just a small, very small slice of what she is ... how she is.

She is so very hyper-vigilant, seeing to every minute details down to it's finest most minuscule point, fine tooth comb, questioning every point along the way, "should we do thus and so, but maybe if we do thus and so, then such and such will happen, maybe we should do it thus and so .. but then so and so might happen, maybe we shouldn't do thus and so, but do "x" "y" and "z" instead, but if we don't do it that way then ..........", on and on and on and on it goes. And usually in hyper warp speed, as to every single friggin thing.

If her mother moans .. "what's wrong mother?, why did you moan, are you alright?".

Mother: "Yes, I'm fine, I was just sighing out loud".

Sister: "Why did you sigh? Are you hurting, are you sure you're alright, why are you sighing what's the matter?"

Mother: "For God's sake __________________, I was just sighing, .. calm down, I'm fine".

Sister: "Are you sure, .. because if something is wrong you need to tell me".

Mother: "Everything is fine, I'm fine".

Sister: "Are you sure, we did a lot yesterday, did we do too much, maybe we shouldn't of gone to two doctors in one day .. was that too much for you, are you too tired now, maybe we need to move those other doctor appointments so we won't have two in one day, is that too much for you, for one day .. is that why you were sighing .. what's wrong, are you sure you're alright".

Hopefully that kinda gives a little bit of a snapshot of what goes on when sister is in the ring directing things.

So in mother in law's defense.. I do get it, why she wouldn't be chomping at the bit to go to her daughter's home.

BUT ....

The only experience she has with her daughter, in the last years as mother in law has aged and been unable to go anywhere much, has been the daughter coming here, periodically, for periods of about 3 weeks at a stretch. When her daughter comes here, she moves heaven and earth for her mother and then some, and doesn't sit down, doesn't stop .. the WHOLE ENTIRE TIME.

Is there a possibility maybe (as I said to mother in law, when she expressed that isn't happening - talking to me - her going to her daughters .. ever) .. could it be possible that maybe if you would go to where she lives .. she'd be more busy managing her own life in that setting than your's and she would get out of your backside .. and not be as hyper-drive-vigilant as you experience in her, when she's here, could that be possible.

The daughter is retired, lives several states away. Does come here, generally, every few months .. and stays for a period of about 3 weeks at a stretch. I wish I could make a list of everything the daughter did when here this last time, but it would take up the whole character allotment:

1 2 3 4 5
Dorker, kudos to you for truly understanding gratitude and giving.

Spent the afternoon grocery gathering and putting together and delivering the makings for Thanksgiving dinners, to some needy folks in the area.

Benevolence, to those who actually need and appreciate kindness extended their way. That's what it's all about.

Highly recommended as to a way to spend one's time.

Not about being directed by the neurosis of one who is selfish and uncaring as to the impact of their indecision and actions.

{{{Hugs}}} Dorker
You did good. I do think it's a touch of PTSD.
Stay nourished, rested, and remember to keep enjoying those uplifting activities. Basically, care for yourself now while you heal.
And enjoy your upcoming holidays!

Woke up this morning, just absolutely riddled with the anxiety that has plagued this thing for so long. Frustrated w/myself. I understand/comprehend, I am out of all this, so why do I feel such angst.

It's the dread of the other shoe that could drop and then the animosity that creates and so forth . the very reason I have to get out of all this. It's not good to live with this kind of anxiety daily and it is a reminder of just that.

And then it occurred to me, .. as I sat here, ordering online, some matching Xmas PJ sets for the g'kids and a cute reindeer antler headband for the oldest and a pretty little red bow headband for the baby girl of the twins .. it occurred to me, this is why I get so anxiety riddled over it.

For so long, my world, my zen .. whatever you wanna call it, .. could be upended so routinely .. with need, ever present/incessant need. It's not how I want to spend my existence.

Just interesting, to have woken up feeling absolutely at almost a panic ..

And then just something so simple as ordering some cute stuff for the g'kids .. something I enjoy doing, and coordinating with DD .. as we are presently working .. to find a slot of time, to take them for Santa pics and in their cute PJ's .. and the joys of getting this accomplished. This is what I "want" to do .. with my time, not chase after more rabbit holes and more incessant, never-ending need from a frail old lady that I keep saying, needs more help .. and until now, .. has been ignored or treated with wrath for my assertions.

Just unreal, .. to still be feeling that angst .. even though It's clear to everyone involved, I am out!

Good point EmilySue, I'll be sure to file that one away should anyone think that ole Dorker is gonna take up the charge here in FL as point person.

You're right, I'm sure DH would lead the charge if if it was poor ole frail Mrs. Magilliccuty, long time church member.

Maybe it takes time, but I do live with a sense the other shoe will drop ..

I know, it can't drop on me, I've been clear where I stand .. but that doesn't mean there won't be attempt.

And no, for anyone who is keeping count, . that all-important prompted phone call from SIL, hasn't come in yet .. and no I don't care. Don't call, do call whatever.

You know, if DH was asked by the pastor to research AL facilities for placing some frail church member with no family - say - Mrs. Magillicutty - well, I'll bet he'd hop right on it like smell on a skunk. Bet he'd make lists, do visits, ask questions, and anything else for dear old Mrs. Magillicutty. Which is exactly what HE (not Dorker) needs to do for MIL.

Maybe the pastor could direct him to do that for "Mrs. Magillicutty", an unseen suffering former church member, and then make a tricky switch? ;-) hahaha (just a little levity here)
But really... if MIL is to be in FL, DH must be the official and sole point person, period.

How do you feel when you know that someone is blazingly angry with you, because you really can't miss it, but you haven't yet understood exactly why?

SIL is not some evil version of the Sorcerer's Apprentice, she is a caregiver doing her imperfect best, and aren't we all. And even if she were an evil etc. for Dorker "no" remains a complete sentence and always will - MIL's, SIL's and DH's poor decisions are never again going to affect Dorker's workload. She's already done that part.

Dorker if you want to spend the holidays with your young growing family, you should. If, *as well not instead*, you want to travel to IL with DH or independently of him to see his family, you should.

I doubt it this will be MIL's last Christmas. Could be. But then so could the last ten have been, and so far so good.

Do what feels comfortable. You're the only judge of that.

Which is what makes me think there is a purpose to having Dorker go to IL. And if SIL feels abandoned and unloved, why force the issue unless there is a purpose to taking her with. And the return to FL was noted as December. So why the trip at end of month up?

Dorker, you have got it right!  Don't THEY love THEIR mother?  It is Their Responsibility, for heaven's sake. I would advise not involving myself in any errands, research on AL, NH, etc. That would be just a way for the camel to get its nose in the tent, and then the whole body.  Which of course is what this whole "You don't love MIL..." manipulative tactic is about.  Like little kids. Like "if you love me, you'd let me play with household chemicals, give me matches, on and on."  Anything to dump their problem in someone else's yard.  Fact is MIL cannot live alone!  Are they willing and able to hire 3 shifts of caregivers? I doubt it.  They must deal with MIL's living situation and truly it has nothing to do with you . You are busy with your family, grandkids, etc.  Your life has changed. I mean, 15 years is not supposed to mean anything??   Do they even realize that they are so scared of MIL that they are not even able to think in terms of MIL's best interests?  So, in reality, who is not showing love here, refusing to be responsible? DH and SIL.
Basically, it would become a delaying tactic, no facility would be found that they would agree to, so why play at being their ineffective middleman? And be their target for blame?  They are just looking to "solve" their problem of keeping MIL happy at your expense.  Impossible actually.  Finding an acceptable placement really MUST be done by SIL and DH.  They certainly would insist on any decision making power and so should be doing the research. Much more efficient and effective. You are wise not to be pulled in. Leave them to it.  I suspect that all of them, MIL, SIL and DH have some very serious mental/emotional entanglements, which only professional help might be able to help.  
You really have better things to do. Grandkids grow up so fast - now is the time to enjoy them and build memories that will last them a lifetime.  I know mine have.  Priceless.. your grandkids need and deserve you.

I'm not suggesting Dorker take on finding an AL or SNF. Gathering financial information, finding out if facilities take Medicaid and the like? That I might consider doing, if, and only if, dh, SIL and Dorker have a frank and open conversation in which Dorker feels free to say "BS" anytime someone says something stupid.

I understand the need to stand firm in not doing any care. But it may be that a gracious gesture allows a bit of movement in this deadlock.

Hold firm to your boundaries. It is not your responsibility to find assisted living for your mother-in-law. It is your husband's and sister-in-law's responsibility. You could run yourself ragged trying to find an appropriate place for her to live and it wouldn't be good enough, or nice enough... The list goes on. husband and sister-in-law have to be on the same page working together to facilitate any forward motion. You should not be involved at all.your husband is finally Awakening to what you have been saying for 15 years. His mother needs more help than you can give her. It's not that you don't love her is that you do love her, and want the best for her. But all the leg work is up to them. And then when it falls apart if it does, it's on their heads not yours. You can be supportive you can be a listening ear, but you cannot make mother-in-law happy.
All of us want things we cannot have. I know I do, and I have to adapt to that. Mother-in-law is no different and not that special. I'm hoping to hear that you spoken to your sister-in-law and begun to mend the fences. I also hope that your issues with your husband can be mended. Let the anger go... It's pointless now, and is only hurting you. Sounds like you are making some progress however slow.

Exactly, Dorker, good call, just let them figure out plans or placement for their mom. They need to own their own decisions or lack thereof, as well as the consequences. If you were to get involved with researching AL or anything to do with care or placement, it's more opportunity for you to be blamed for MIL's unhappiness, for one. Also they may see it as an "in" for asking more of you, i.e. if you were willing to do research, maybe you could just do x or y as well "just this one time."

If your SIL calls, I'd just be honest in telling her that while your participation in MIL's care for 15 years was out of love and by the same token, your not participating now doesn't mean lack of love for MIL or the family, your life has changed in that you now have the grandkids to think about and are busy with things you need to attend to, and are not able to provide one on one care for MIL anymore. Further, that MIL's care needs are far greater now than any one or two lay people can manage (which I know you've said repeatedly to her, but I'd reiterate it if she asks). No other explanation or justification necessary. If she says, "Can you just _____? Just this once?" Tell her no, I'm sorry, I won't be able to do that but if you talk to DH maybe he could.

Oh good! Dorker, you sound stronger and stronger. Keep on!

Barb and Patooski: No I have no intention of walking any walk towards a path to AL and then get shot down as to my participation when it's decided once again . after I've expended the energy to go that walk . that nothing is suitable .. for Mommy Dearest .. no thanks.

Not said in anger, believe me, said in the spot of .. "I have done all that I am willing to do as to placement and what's best for you mom, it's on you now". That's it, just that simple.

I will .. when the day/hour comes .. and need for emptying the contents of the home, her placed .. I will be more than happy to help if requested .. outside of that .. if you guys want me as a friend .. then things will look like just that, I will bring her a vase of flowers and a sweet card and visit with her in an AL setting .. I will come get her if she's able, and we'll go to lunch .. a "Friend" .. nothing more.

Seeing to her needs, yes even . sorting thru path forward to AL . is off my radar. Not interested.

Barb, on the piece about not going to IL . that is highly unusual .. not defending him but any previous time there has been a trip to IL . I've been all over it, all about going there. LOVED IT . in years past.

So it is unusual that I wouldn't have responded with "Oh man . yea lets do that!".

Highly unusual.

But a trip to IL has not been on any radar here since we even had a g'child and that's been since 2013 .. there's been no discussion of going there, ever. And in my station of life at present, and at xmas time, my priority presently is to be with my g'kids and enjoy them and xmas.

Nothing really controversial in that approach.

To be quite honest about it and extrapolate it out even further, MIL has been in such poor health that she herself has not been to IL since well before 2013 and g'kids arrived here as part of our world . she's been unable to recreationally visit her daughter in IL. And more to the point, at one time, I had mentioned to SIL that we should (meaning we as in DH and her and her husband) get that trip we've always talked about onto the radar, to go to D.C and do the Washington DC thing .. and I began to talk of that at least in a breath of it, to her having responded, "oh we probably shouldn't do that, we really cannot be all out of pocket in case mom's needs crop up . we need to .. at least some of us be available" (meaning SIL had reached some unwritten rule somewhere in all of this that we aren't to depart here and the scene here absent her ability to be here should that be necessary). And remember I played along like the good marionette for a while . a long while and so while the above might've gotten, from some others, a resounding, "What?!?!? Since when do you write the rules as to how your mother's life dictates ours .. if I want to go out of town and enjoy a vacation with my husband, I'll do just that .. if you're so worried about your mom's health and well being then get your azz down here and live with her, or get her placed" . and maybe that should've been my response. It did kinda strike me broadside even when she said it. But I was the good little stepper n fetcher, all things MIL in those days.

So I didn't.

And so now .. we're at a juncture in it all, that DH .. threw that out as a suggestion, going to IL for xmas .. and yes in years past, I'd of been all over that.

Stations change, seasons change . my station .. I'm on the page of wanting to enjoy my g'kids at xmas . no biggie .. you wanna go, do that .. I think that'd be just great .. who knows when is the last xmas your mom is around (I didn't say all that .. but I did encourage him to go if that's what he wants to do). But I do think by that juncture, I could've offered to "yes by all means, let's get you on a Leer Jet and get you there this afternoon and stay as long as you'd like .. that's just wonderful" .. I think he needed a point to throw out anger and hurt .. and that one was a perfect opportunity . for me to refuse to go .. he could jump all over it.

Normally he doesn't care .. if I want to go somewhere . . and it doesn't include him he doesn't have a problem with it, at all. Nor I with him going anywhere either.

Dorker, You're doing great, under tremendous pressure.
Just my opinion, but I would run from any involvement at all, including helping with AL, like it is hot fire. The risk is too great.
The question should always be "What are you going to do??" "I love you all but I can't be involved any more, for my own sake."
"I feel for you, but I've done enough. I can't do any more." Period.
You have really suffered in this and I don't see where anyone else has. They want what they want and God knows, they can't be uncomfortable. It's been at your expense and truly, they haven't cared. They are all fine while you are in anguish. The lack of respect, the work itself, the refusal to take you seriously... All so painful.
You don't need any more pain and it's going to be hard to avoid it. If you help in any way, you will get drawn in and it will hurt your health and sanity. If you don't help, you will be hurt by blame. But for your own survival, in spite of blame, I hope you can stay out of it. How difficult.
I am so glad you have the support of that good Pastor. You certainly deserve it.
It's an old cliche, but Just Say NO!! Again and again and again...

Something else that troubles me, Dorker.

Why does DH rail against the fact that you don't want to go to IL for Christmas? He spends much of his free time what suits HIM, hunting and churching.

Are you not afforded the same ability to say what you want and have that wish respected without accusations and anger?

The more you write about her, the more I become convinced that SIL is suffering from some impairment of judgement herself.

OF COURSE medical professionals say that elders' choices and desires be taken into consideration! We were told that every time we came into contact with social workers, discharge planners, etc.

But at the same time, we all had jobs and mortgages. There was no one who could stay home and tend to my elderly, mildly cognitively impaired, fail but competent mother. Mom had resources and we had tried privately paid aides coming in 24/7, but that didn't suit mom and in fact, made her more anxious.

The point is that MIL's wants and desires don't outweigh the needs of her children. IF she is competent, she can do as she pleases and pay for care, or sign up for government assistance to provide that.

The fly in the ointment is and always has been, that SIL wants to direct you all as to what to do without there being a plan.

Her brother also has not seen the need for a plan; just the need for a band-aid (the band-aid has a name: Dorker) every d@mn day, leaving Dorker no ability to plan her own life/career/babysitting responsibilities.

I think that your reply to any future requests should be "what plan have you and your sister come up with to ensure that your mother is cared for? What assessments are you planning to have? What plan is there for applying for aid for her?

I will not care for her in her home or in mine; I WILL, if there is a plan, participate in research, but only if there is will on the part of you BOTH to see this through to placement."

Barb wrote:

I wonder why SIL asked "Can Dorker go and....." rather than asking HER BROTHER to do something?

Why would she assume that you are the point person in FL for THEIR MOM'S CARE?

Don't THEY love her?


Just a prime example the sister does not "listen/hear" what is said to her. Why would she ask "can Dorker go ....?" .. and not ask her brother .. because that's been the well established pattern over the last 15 years .. it's been Dorker at the head of the FL team .. and not her brother .. and so that's the "go to" move.

"Don't they love her?"

Indeed .. point made.

Look, it doesn't matter now .. at all .. I am out of all this. But the last communication had with SIL .. was via that b's text she sent, blowing sunshine up my skirt .. she'd have you believe MIL is out running a marathon . ..

And of course, I'd asked of her to "call us, some issues with the text, call us .. don't text" ..

And then beyond that, I mistakenly fired off my thoughts/frustrations in what I thought was a text to DD .. explaining the latest, and peppered yes, with my frustrations in it all, and mistakenly sent it to SIL not to DD.

Discovered my misstep and then sent another text " As you can see, some frustrations and need to "Talk" to you, not text .. call us".

To that, there was a response from her .. when she got in late from having helped her daughter with a dog that got skunked . and having just seen all of it .. she responded, .. that she can see I am frustrated, . looks like these texts were meant for DD .. and ... she goes on from that to say that .. "besides that, even the healthcare folks say, we must all remember that mother has her own wants and sentiments as to her circumstances and her setting and be mindful of that always"

That was the LAST communication at all with her. At that I blocked her ability to text me any longer. She'd made no mention whatsoever, of anything akin to, "I will call you guys when I can". She simply responded that we all have to be mindful of the mother's wants.

It was my propensity to fire back at her, "WHAT THE LIVING H3&& do you think the last 15 effing years have been about?".

But no, I just blocked her ability to text me any longer. I'm sure she has sent texts .. maybe back a couple of weeks ago, that sit in cyber space somewhere, .. I know her, .. she doesn't "LISTEN" ...

I had said as I sent that mis-sent text .. that I thought was landing in DD's ear to apprise her .. but I mistakenly sent it to SIL .. it said in there, peppered with my own frustrations . that I am done .. I am out of this entirely I can't continue to help in all this, I'm done .

She obviously read it.

But she doesn't "LISTEN".

So why is she reaching out to her brother with a "Can dorker go ....?" ..

Because she doesn't LISTEN.

I'm done arguing about it .. she doesn't "have to listen" to me ... nor do I care to even engage in anything that I think she needs to be doing .. do it how you want . going forward .. if you think it best to leave her do it (I won't announce it but you can bet APS will get a report from me, anonymously) .. if that's what you think needs to happen .. do it .. .I'm no longer begging/pleading that they throw me a morsel of a crumb of any understanding and comprehension of what it is I see and think in it all.

And no, FL isn't a state where the nearest relative is held culpable for the old and infirm .. not in FL.

But anyway .. just so part and parcel of her failure to "LISTEN".


They don't know how long it will take for placement .. but that the sister is working on that, and she is not going to leave her again .. they will come back here .. and if and when it's necessary that SIL return to IL .. either mother goes with her back to IL, or there is placement, leaving her is no longer an option.

Explaining to him, who is finally actively listening instead of throwing it at me, "We'll all just have to do the best we can", which is what I heard forever in all this .. him finally "listening". Explaining to him, that's where all this hurt comes from DH .. she returns to IL .. repeatedly .. me over here raising the roof that it doesn't work, requires more care than I can deliver .. and yet the directives fly and if you were approached it would be your wrath aimed at me. THIS WAS NEVER MINE TO OWN ............

He did apologize .. .for the fact that I was in this so long that it got me to the point I am .. and then assure . that he is the "other" of the two managing it now .. and I won't be expected to do a thing. (We'll see, words are cheap).

And on the topic of his mom .. and my assertion, "DH she doesn't think clearly anymore, there are cognitive issues, that you guys refuse to look at and investigate".

He chimed in with some sadness that every time he talks to his mom .it's almost like you've turned on a recording that play the same thing in a loop, her words:

"This is just not good here, .. this isn't good .. that I've been brought here, this isn't good here .. and you know, I haven't been out .. since I got here, I've not been anywhere .. it's just not good here, this is not where I need to be, I need to be back in my house with my things and that's where me and M (her dog) need to be".

He tells me this is what he hears every time he talks to his mom, as if it's on a loop being played over and over. Concurring that her brain doesn't work right .. and he said this: "She seems to think that if she can just get back to FL that me and you .. we're the gatekeeper to that .. that if we would both just say .. yea mom .. c'mon back home .. we'll come get ya .. and it'll all be fine .. we'll tell sister to go pound sand .. you'll be fine .. she seems to think that the answer to all this is to get her back into her home .. and that he had countered .. "Mom you guys just went to the casino and had a birthday lunch and you had a great time" to which she said "oh yea, yes well we did do that", he goes on to tell me, "He77 she wasn't going outside and doing anything when she was here, but there is a disconnect in her brain . she is somewhere in her brain .. she's like in a movie set or something .. that if she can just get back to her home .. she's gonna be the little old lady that lives in her home she so cherishes .. and prattles about there .. she has that as her vision .. "

So him concurring that his mom doesn't think right.

As I said before, this is all a "step", a hard, bitter fought step .. that's all it is, in the fact that there is at least a recognition and an "EAR" that is imperative to this situation that "listened" .. finally. Will deed match words? I guess we'll see.

I'm not pushing anymore, for AL or a rocket to the moon for that matter .. nor any cog work up .. or anything else. It's all on them now .. as it should've been long ago.

No, I think you're right, .. does he "own" and wear it that he was a huge part of why I am hurt .. not so much no .. his mindset is one of grabbing that box off the shelf that says "time to get on with it, and this is what we need to do and moving on now".

Is there danger in that, you bet there is. If he doesn't understand how this so wounded me, then the real propensity is there to have expectation that it can all be thrown in dorker's corner again .. you bet I see that. And yes, .. it does hang our marriage in the balance .. I see that also, very clearly ..

I was "heard" that's all. An improvement.

All while she's in the throes of a stretch of one of her bouts of diarrhea and dehydrating and not eating the proper diet to address it .. she fails to take her meds and any understanding/comprehension as to the fallout of same ... she has some cognitive issues, even a doctor said so .. and wanted it looked at, a full battery of testing . but that gets ignored, .. so you guys .. it's your decision . .I'm out of all this .. but ... you both want to hang your hat on .. but she can still think .. okay . your mom .. what about when her body has failed her to the degree she can't get up to even go to the potty or into the shower, .. whose gonna do it then ... who is gonna lift her onto the potty and into the shower .. she can still think by GOSH .. so we won't even think of a facility placement".

To that he answers to it all that there is an awareness that she can never be left alone again .. she can't manage (well hooray for that .. my GOD what it took for you two to see it) .. and .. <I'm still not sold that SIL will fall on that sword and see it through, but not up to me and I don't care, he seems to be able to comprehend that, .. I'm not sure how much the sister does and is willing to fall on that sword of .. oh well I guess I gotta now spend my life every single day .. in the care of this situation>.

He says that there is an AL angle being worked .. by SIL .. and to answer Barb's question .. I got the sense that it was asked of him "Can dorker do ________", maybe something with the whole AL path .. maybe she's also caring for her mom, but also .. now navigating .. and from up there in IL, the path forward for placement here in FL somewhere . and how to get that achieved, and I got the sense maybe it had something to do with the numerous phone calls and/or .. go out there and look in the drawer in the bureau and see if you can find the paperwork that has to do with _______I need the income stuff off of that .. and blah blah blah. I got the sense that maybe that was what was asked of him, "Can Dorker go do ______", to which he cut her off and explained no . that Dorker is done .. ".

But all to explain that AL is now being looked at, .. and sister is beginning to cross that intersection .. and the path to how to get there. Further extrapolating that they will be here .. he doesn't know when .. but at some point they come back this way .. I guess if MIL is to be AL bound .. she wants it to be FL but MIL does not want that path forward .. him concurring with me that is what has to happen .. that yes, it's made sadder by the fact, she can still think .. it would be easier if she can't think .. but she can ... but I guess, AL is to be at some point in all of this, who knows when .. and so it is said it will be in FL . that's where she wants to be, not in IL. So he goes on to explain further, that they will be back here at some point, don't know when Dec/Jan/Feb .. who knows .. he doesn't know .. but when they do get back this way that sister knows she cannot leave her anymore .. she doesn't manage .. and so she'll have to stay with her .. and that if she thinks .. and those utterings become part of all of this ... thinks she's gonna leave her again .. that she will have to deal with HIM . not me .. that he won't stand for it .. because he cannot be off work all day every day to attend to his mom .. and so he will have something to say about that.

To which I interjected, .. "I've heard all this before .. and only to watch your sister walk away and with assurance that your mom will manage, and your assurance that we have a TEAM now ... do you know ......???......where's that TEAM DH .. where were they .. you had assured she has a TEAM now the last time .. (listing each and pointing out they were nowhere a part of any of this while she sat there chitting all over the place for 3 weeks that her daughter chose to dog sit up in IL).

He says that they know, . she cannot be left alone .. that AL is being worked

CM, based on what was said yesterday .. I think he "gets it" that I'm done. And even more to he point, that means he isn't .. and by a long shot .. that means he will now have to figure out how to do it. Whatever "it" turns out to be w/regards to his mom .. for however much longer that is. There is no expectation at all, from him . that I am going to be lifting as much as a feather out of her path. He referenced several years ago, w/the turmoil weathered in OD . and my having reached the saturation point and turning from it all, couldn't do it .. and he took over.

He did actively "listen/hear" me ... which is really more than has occurred over the last few years this all ratcheted up to where it is now. I think you're right, that "Y" chromosome .. maybe he will never get it, how wounded I have felt. I don't know that he does "get that". As he put it, .. "I am just . ya know .. I'm over here . and I pull out the box (proverbial) that says *I'm moving on now from this and here's the plan* and so I do that, I'm moving on with this, and I've got it now, nobody is going to be asking you to do anything, I've made that clear to my sister".

He seemingly felt very much "in the middle" between .. what he would describe (I would differ w/his opinion there) .. as his bewildered and upset mother and sister and myself. Feels "in the middle", all while his focus is on that box he pulled off the shelf .. and it reads "get on with it, moving on along".

So, yes you're right that he doesn't get that .. how much hurt this has all caused. He may never get that part of it. Doesn't matter I don't guess, other than .. he is going to have to forge ahead in the battle on his own . and that's what the crux of it is anyway.

It's interesting .. (I think he was kinda parroting words he hears from his sister) .. his words: "Ya know, everybody says mom needs to be in AL somewhere, everybody says it .. everybody that spends time around her .. the church folks .. everybody .. but ya know .. she still has a brain .. she still has her own wants for her life, ... this would all be different if she didn't even know who she is anymore .. she does .. and so it's just hard .. terribly hard to force her to do something she doesn't want to do, when she has a brain of her own". Very much something the sister hangs her hat on .. and has for quite a long while.

And my response to that: "DH it doesn't matter to me what you guys do, I am out of this .. and whether AL is the future, .. or sitting in her home in a pile of chit up to her eyeballs .. if that's what you guys think is best, because by GOLLY she can still "think" .. then do that .. it's your mom ... I guess in yall's view .. and yall get to call the shots, she's your mom .. I guess in yall's view .. as long as she knows who she is .. .and where she is, .. and can rotely recite enough to convince you guys she has a brain .. then AL or SNF . will never be a path forward .. and in the end, that's yours and your sister's decision .. but absent any placement anywhere, her body is failing her ... I don't know .. I haven't been in and out of these sites to know what and who is there, but I suspect she's not the only one that can still think, but has a body that has failed her .. yes, there are some there that don't know who they are anymore, .. but there are likely others there, that do know who they are .. but they can't ambulate well enough to take care of themselves.

"And not only that DH . I have maintained for a long time your mom has some cognitive issues .. I mean . look she argues with you that she can sit right there in her home, not having to be carted outta there, in the event of a hurricane, no power .. she thinks that's just fine .. .she's FL born and raised .. .and she will be fine .. and you and she argue about that ... she has some disconnect in how she thinks .. .many examples of that, her insistence that she'll be fine right there, she'll manage

Dorker, you do love these people. I hope you will all get back to understanding one another. Your bonds as a family are very strong, and it would be a terrible loss to you all if they were irreparably broken.

What DH has yet to grasp - and I am making huge allowances for the unfortunate Y chromosome handicap but he really has to get this point - is how hurt you have been by the continual strain of the last, let's say, ten years; and by the family's blindness to the increasing distress AND anxiety about MIL that you have been signalling.

You have been wounded, and you are now hors de combat. That is nothing like the same thing as abandoning your comrades.

I wonder why SIL asked "Can Dorker go and....." rather than asking HER BROTHER to do something?

Why would she assume that you are the point person in FL for THEIR MOM'S CARE?

Don't THEY love her?

"There's really nothing to discuss. For my own health I can not be involved in this any longer. I did the best I could for as long as I could. It's up to you now."

But we thought... "I can't control what you think. I just know I did the best I could and I can't do it any more.

' I love your mom enough to tell her that her children and I no longer feel that she's safe living alone any longer. That we need to support ourselves and pay our mortgages, same as she did. That there comes a time when you need more help than just family, neighbors can give.

To MIL, "If you come back here and live alone, we could be charged with neglect. Not a place I want to go. Now, let's you and your kids figure out a plan for what is doable, going forward."

To SIL, " If you find her care, in your home , overehelming, what do you and your brother think her care needs would be if you returned her To her shambles of a home? How is that caring for your mom? It's acceding to her wants, but not meeting her needs... please get an impartial needs assessment and follow that guidance."

("I'm not about that, just want the cloud"). "Then you need to tell your children that you'd like to sign on to hospice. Have that conversation with them".

Dorker, you're out of this.

No I am to receive a call. No one has prompted me to reach out nor would I. Has nothing to do with me going forward.

Just, any ideas on ...

What do you even say at this point?

I'm not even interested in any conversation that steers towards justifying why I ended up where I am. This was never mine to own, they were only beneficiaries of kindness extended far beyond any ability to appreciate it.

Here's how it was reported to me:

That DH says about like this, .. "Well Dorker that statement . that "we" don't think you even love mom anymore, .. the reason for that .. sister had asked, . "can dorker go do ___________", and I told her, I cut her off before she even got it out of her mouth .. "No .. dorker is out of this, entirely, she has washed her hands of the whole thing".

The next response was, .. "Well God that hurts .. I mean .. why? ... I thought she helped mom because she loves her".

This is how it got reported as convo between he and his sister.

To which I responded, interjected as follows".. and interestingly enough DH, she has yet to call me .. let's talk about DH the pervasive pattern of her repeatedly ignoring my pleas . thru the years, that we need to talk .. so let's establish that .. but now . now that chit has hit the fan in it all, she seems perplexed and wants to hang it all on "we thought she did what she did because she loved mom" .. and then just leave that hanging. To which DH reports he'd answered his sister, "she does Love mom .. she is SPENT with all this .. just spent".

He got one sliver of it right .. but it's bigger than that, and of course, he wasn't absorbing/hearing the other bigger part of all this ..until this morning .. (in all these years it built to this point). There is a "bigger' picture.

But anyway .. at that my point in it all was .. I asked your sister 2x's to call and she never did and you made it worse by telling me she doesn't owe me a damn thing, she's not gonna call you".

At that point, he picked up his phone, "I'm going to tell sister to call you, I can't speak for you and all the finite points of all this .. she needs to talk to you .. and hear it from you .. not from me".

Thus, the prompting of a phone call.

Thus I say .. *what to even say at this point*.

SIL: Gee Dorker .. we have been so upset that you just don't call anymore, and DH tells me that you are just done, spent .. ya know, we thought you did what you did because you love mom".

ME: "I do love your mom, very much".

SIL: "Well, .. I mean . I guess I just struggle to understand how it is that you feel like you can't help anymore, at all, but you profess to love her, that doesn't seem to make any sense to me".

I'm just envisioning the above as some kinda dialogue. I don't want to get into a tit for tat, "you did thus and so SIL .. so I'm just done".

I don't care anymore, I've made the decision that works for me .. for a lot of reasons . and nothing is going to dissuade me from that stance .. I don't want to argue, I don't wish to justify .. I don't wish to hash and re-hash what should've been and could've been that would've seen things not get to this juncture . what's done is done .. and I am too.

So what do you even say?

I guess, ostensibly . she has been prompted to reach out in a phone call this way . on the premise .. he can't speak for me and the finite points . and I have valid points that need to be heard and by the horse's mouth (SIL).

Me; I don't hate you, I don't hate your mom . I don't hate anyone, I am just done, for a whole host of reasons that are really at this point, don't even bear mentioning .. I'm sorry that equates to you somehow that I don't "love" you guys . that's something you'll have to work through . because that isn't my stance, never has been".

I just don't even know what to say at this point.

Dorker; why do you think that you need to phone SIL?

Did Pastor tell you that you should do that?

At this point, I would be guided by his advice.

He and his wife visited MIL at her home, yes? And saw how frail and compromised she was, yes? And I believe made a comment that she should not be living alone, unsupported, yes? (Please correct me if I'm wrong).

SIL is scared? Of you? Of her mom? Of what's to come?

DH (and by extension, his sister) need to hear from someone OTHER THAN YOU that MIL living alone is no longer an option. I would be humming and responding with "that's nice dear" to anything that was said.

Dorker, you have NO RESPONSIBILITY in this situation. I don't mean to sound mean, but stop inserting yourself into the conversation. If they ask/tell/direct you to do something, you simply say "no, I can't possibly do that; it's not safe".

You leave it at that because YOU and the pastor know that it's the truth. If DH and SIL can't hear or get that, it's their problem.

Look, I think that Rainmom and others have both pointed out to you, about 3000 posts ago, that your marriage might not survive this ordeal.

That's a choice you have to make. But just stop trying to justify why you are no longer propping up. It's the only way that DH and sis are going to get to talk.

My opinion only.

So, not wishing to be inflammatory ... nor infer in any way/shape/form that I'm somehow remorseful or sorry things turned in this direction

Someone more objective ... offers of what can be said at this point ....

Apparently her *fear* that was the supposed reason there's been no call (not sure why there were no calls over the last few years this heated to a fever pitch but whatever) ... apparently a fire lit under her ... or smoldering coals .. I don't know ... started by DH at the root of my REFUSAL to "own" that I've chit canned anybody.

So I guess there is to be some semblance of an attempt to phone (whatever ... I see the veil here ... call would have never come as long as I'd march in lock step to the neurosis and OCD on that end)

Truly ... I don't care ... I don't wish to send bridges burning in a blazing inferno of destruction.

But by the same token
.. just ... whatever you need to say SIL that simulates whatever semblance of what you would term reaching out (obviously initiated outside of any self motivation and/or ability to look at what a mess one's own front porch is)

What to say ... ???

Have a nice life..hope it all works out for you and your brother .. wish you all the best ..buh'bye now.

What? Say What?

Drop it. She knows where you are. If she felt a need to contact you or had figured out a new way to manipulate you, she would have contacted you already.

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