In N.Y state when a POA has been changed does the first POA need to be informed?Also can this be done via e-mails?Mother met w/attorney ,never followed up in thief office.Had conversation over phone .Afamily member p/u papers and brought home to have mom sign them.Mom is pretty healthy98 yrs old.So there is some confusion and agitation due to age.She is controlled by daughter.After the death of my younger brother (we had joint POA) within a year things got changed.A annuity account that was set up for myself and my brother as our retirement due to sale of family business we ran.Nothing in writing though.I used to be able to talk to the advisor,or just check status.NOW that has all been changed also.I confronted mom about it .Her responds was don't worry.I'm really not sure if she really knows what's going on w/accounts.She listens to daughter and her daughters friend.
How can I check on POA legality,and other status.?
We are not talking a big sum really,but enough that I could pay off my small mortgage .
I've witness sister buying things like designer furniture,bedding for herself,purses you name it.Will even comment how much an item was.The day I told mom it was such & such(much less) price.Just got on alittle rant ...SORRY!
My question is mostly the changes in POA?I realize that having daughter there with her,and taking her to appt.that med/proxy works.Can a layer write up and accept a signed change to trust,will,POA document over email.Whose to say who signed it?Tnanks for your time.Frustrated!!!!!!!

I am my dad's POA. He currently lives in assisted living and wants to return to his home. He went there on respite to recover from the stroke, has uncontrolled diabetes, and is legally blind. My husband and I know he needs to stay where he's at because he's getting proper care and very well taken care of. not diagnosed with dementia although I may see some signs of it but basically he's still real with it at the age of 82. He's always been very very independent, bullheaded, careless work ethics etc. my relationship with him is very superficial, and his home is a couple blocks away for me. He used to get help at home care for hours a week, but I know he needs more than that but I have decided that I am not capable mentally to step in and watch over him every day . my question is being his PO a what are my legal responsibilities and if he goes back living in filth like before and not taking care of himself will I be in trouble for that?

Joannes, thanks for your reply. The reason my brother and nursing home did not want me taking my parents out for dinner was because my parents were getting terrible care, they knew I was unhappy about it, and I had hired a lawyer to try and get them private care at home (which I did, and they are much happier and very well cared for). After a lot of struggling I was informed by Adult Protective that the POA and Nursing Home had no legal right to tell me or anyone else that we could not visit my parents or take them out, if that is why my parents wanted to do. The POA is supposed to manage financial matters only; and not control who my parents can see or where they can go. The nursing home was out of line in tellinge this, and it cost me a lot of money unnecessarily.

Vicki, NO, there WAS no requirement for me to OK visitors taking Dad out. But I may have set that up when I did all the admit paperwork. I really don't remember because that was over 2 years ago. I know we were worried initially that Mom might try to get him and take him back home, so perhaps the facility just set it up that if she did, they would inform me because I had POA. But when family came to see him from out of town, I did call in and made it clear that they had all permissions because I didn't want his grandson to get hassled by any staff and that seemed the easiest way to be sure. And, I am the only living child left, so no conflicts with anyone. More with Mom than anybody after Dad was placed because she didn't understand why and felt there was no reason for me to have done that. We have two daughters and some grandkids who visited at times, but the staff knew all of us well after the first few months. I don't understand refusing to allow you to take him out, unless there is a fear that you would not return him and would basically 'steal' or kidnap him. Why would someone want to keep the poor parent hurting because they cannot do things with their own child? That is beyond me....but I read the posts on here and see that it's more common than not to have conflicts when there are multiple siblings involved. And in general, it appears that the ones who are doing nothing to help are just lurking in the background waiting for death and to get their hands on the money. Do NOT take that wrong, I am not meaning you at all! Your situation seems totally different to me.

Joannes, thanks for your comments. Problems and conflicts about POA only tend to arise when there is conflict between family members. Are you saying you had to "ok it" for other famy members to take your Dad out to dinner? The problem I had was that my brother was POA and said I could not take my parents out to dinner without his permission. The nursing home supported him in preventing me from taking them out. This was just spite due to a disagreement between he and I; I did not do anything wrong. I later found out that my brother (the POA) and nursing home had no right to decide whethet my parents could go out to dinner with me. It was up to them.

Wow! I never had all this trouble and my POAs for both my parents are in Arizona. They had a great elder care attorney whom they had worked with since setting up their trust with him back in 2000. Both my parents had dementia/alzheimer's and it was never said that I had to have a special POA for mental health. My Dad WAS declared incompetent, first by two doctors and then, when he had to leave home and go for evaluation in a locked facility, the judge ordered that he had to be placed in Memory care and could not return to the home situation. My Mom is still home with caregivers coming in (I live in a different town) and has been evaluated, with an official diagnosis of Alzheimer/s. She has NOT been declared incompetent yet...but has been told she should not be driving and she is considered OK to still be home as long as there are caregivers for a good part of the day. SO, re: my POA for her....she gets to decide what she is capable of deciding, so I ask her for her opinions and ideas....but I handle all the money and ultimately make decisions, 'considering her wishes'. For example, we are approaching the need to move to A.L.....and IF she refuses, the lawyer says, he will try to get her to agree, but should she even refuse him, then we will have to spend more money to go to court and get guardianship....because right now, she has the right to refuse to go, but she's not considered able to make 'executive level decisions' based on her neuro-psych eval. So she is sort of in limbo land as far as competency....most is OK, but not considered able to make complex decisions or to drive. She wants to remain in her own home, or be 'with family', and is running out of money to stay home with caregivers.... Only family she could go be with (and are more than willing to take her for the rest of her life...) is our daughter and family up in WA state. Mom doesn't want to go with them because she doesn't like that they have 6 kids and she doesn't like how they keep house! It doesn't seem to matter to her that they have a second home on their property that she could be in and have caregivers come in and help her when family cannot....but would be with family for social activities and meals and church etc. So, she's not making good decisions...but has a great attorney who is very helpful to me! And furthermore, when Dad was placed, my POA was very well respected. The doctors called me after seeing him. The executive director and activities director knew me and kept me informed. Other family members COULD take Dad out for dinner or a ride etc, if I had okayed it and they bent over backwards at his facility to cooperate with all family, rather than to fight with anyone. I am really saddened by the other experiences reported here. I would say that Adult Protective Services should help sort things out.

Some more comments on the DPOA. We had to get a law passed to force the Banks in Maryland to Accept the Power of Attorney that was substantially like the Statute.
Also the Agent van only do what the Grantor could. The agent can never use the POA for their own benefit. Get an Attorney and file suit against the Agent.

K Gabriel Heiser, I just re-read your article and hope you can clarify something. You say something about not losing power when a Durable POA is signed or "kicks in." When exactly does it "kick in?" You also say they have broad power over your finances but must act in your "best interest." If someone has dementia how can anyone prove they are acting in your best interest? Why do dishonest people get away with so much when it is so clear they are NOT acting in the persons best interest, like the story Riley90 shares here? Why do families have to empty their bank accounts paying attorneys to protect their loved ones who are being taken advantage of? None of this seems right. In my experience the nursing homes and healthcare providers don't even understand the whole POA laws, and work under false assumptions or lie to support whatever suits them. At least that is what happened to me and Riley90.

Riley90... Your letter brought me to tears. I went through a very similar situation. It is hard to believe how attorneys and nursing homes gang up on family members to bully and harass them for their own benefit. They certainly dont care about what is best for the elderly person being fooled or neglected. We supposedly have "rights" but need to empty our bank accounts to have them enforced. There is far too much ambiguity and confusion about POA, even amongst lawyers and healthcare providers. My attorney either did not know the law or took advantage of all the ambiguity to take my money. I spent thousands with him trying to get my parents out of a nursing home where they were neglected, only to find out from Adult Protective Services that they had the right to walk out on their own at any time. The nursing home to me their Health Care Proxy was outdated and useless because it was not the original copy. (I knew that was a lie.) then the elder-lawyer had my senile parents sign a new one without me on it. I was told I would be arrested if I took my parents out to dinner. They are all crooked and in cahoots. I don't know why they cannot make the whole POA the thing more clear to avoid all this unnecessary angst and expense. (I'm not sure who "they" are.) I wonder if Legal Aide, the Department of Health, Elder Source, or Adult Protective could help you.

In AZ, you must have a mental health power of attorney for when someone becomes mentally incapacitated.

Thanks for this article. I see you are an elder attorney and must know what you're talking about. I've read countless articles about POA for 3 years and it seems there's conflicting information. Some say ANY POA does not take effect until the person is deemed legally incompetent in a court of law, which rarely happens. I think you say otherwise? I believe you are saying the agent makes independent decisions that they believe are in the other person's best interest? Others imply they act only on the person's behalf... for example, pay bills or move money per instruction, even though in reality most cannot actually provide instruction. These subjects come up here often, and causd debates that are never clarified. It's often about whether the POA can force the person to move into a nursing home, determine where they can go and who they can see. I was misguided into thinking I could not bring my parents home to dinner, or take them out of their nursing home for any reason because my brother (POA) AND the nursing home said so. They said I would be arrested if I took them out of the building for any reason. I paid an attorney several thousand dollars only to discover later on from Adult Protective Services that my parents were free to go or live wherever they wanted until deemed legally incompetent. (They were actually extremely confused, but not "officially" or legally deemed incompetent.) Also, my brother and the elder attorney changed my parents' POA and Health Care Proxy to exclude me, after they were diagnosed with Alzheimer's and had no idea what they were signing. Again, they were not "legally" incompetent, but all medical records reflected that they had dementia or Alzheimer's. Their original POA and HCP were only four years old and signed before they were confused. Was it legal for the attorney to have them sign new ones? All this conflict was all due to a disagreement between me and my brother... he wanted them in a nursing home and I wanted to care for them at home with professional help. So he and the nursing home ganged up. I have so many burning questions and hope you can clarify. Thank You!!!

Tried to do some banking for my father with the DPOA and the bank required it's own form and not the one I had drawn up. Luckily my father was still able to sign for the bank form, but negated the effect of me doing his banking for him since he still needed to go to the bank or get the form notarized. Then found out later that the investments held at the SAME bank ALSO needed their own POA. Be sure to get all those at the same time as the original. We gave in at that point as Dad had given me his passwords so I could do what he wanted anyway and I was listed as his beneficiary on the investments anyway. It was easier on his bank accounts to just list me as co-signer on his accounts, which we did. Also helps as those accounts do not have to go through probate. Be aware also that the DPOA stops at death and is not effective after that.

A Power of Attorney authorizes the Agent to do only what the Grantor could do. A Springing Power is very Difficult to manage, since a Business will always question the Authority. Best to just have a Durable Power and a Trusted Agent.

By the recommendation of his estate lawyer, my father, who was already showing signs of dementia, named a younger friend, known for only 4 years, as his DPOA, for mental and for health. We, his 2 daughters, were unaware that the friend had unethical intentions until it was too late. We are both named as the Alternates, however, the agent blocked us as soon as our father went into crisis. He was taken from his home in his retirement community and locked up on an advanced alzhiemers wing, against his will. His DPOA then took total control of our father, and suddenly quit returning our phone calls and emails, then was consulting with and using our father's lawyer against us. He aggressively blocked us from getting any information about our father and firbid his doctors, nurses, and social worker to talk to us. When we visited our father, he said several times he wanted his daughters to make all of his decisions, health and fiancial, and he kept trying to fire his lawyer. When we tried to change tge DPOA with him, one of the hospital admins who kbew my dads lawyer found out and he told my dads lawyer. Right before the doctor came to help us witness the signing, the hospital administrator told the doctor they'd slap a lawsuit on her of she helped us. So she backed off and we were never able to get it changed. The lawyer bullied us and told us even if we changed it there's no way it would be honored by the hospital. After that my dad kept trying to fire his lawyer, and even told his DPOA he wanted him fired, but he'd gotten the dementia diagnosis so no one honored what he was saying about his daughters being DPOA, or to replace his lawyer. We even have him asking us to find him a replacement lawyer on a voicemail, and 3 times on video saying he wanted his daughters to make all of his decisions. We got a bad attorney who botched our case and none of this got addressed and we continued to get bullied and harrassed by my dads lawyer (he and the DPOA accused us of stealing almost 10K from our fathers accounts after he had taken control of my dads finances, we didn't, and we asked for his documentation but he never produced it). We hired a new attorney but he ended up doing damage control from our previous attorney. In any case, it looks as though you are saying my dad could have changed the DPOA, and fired his lawyer, even after the dementia diagnosis? There was no court order stating he couldn't make any of his own decisions. The Agent continues to block us, our attorney now is managing to get us information but its costing us 10s of thousands, and will soon bankrupt us, and now, aftet not being allowed to visit him for several months until we hired this new attorney, we discovered our dad is showing signs of serious neglect, bedsores, oral hygeine being ignored, goes on and on. Attorney now working to address issues. We think the agent is a perpetrator, or predator, and had planned all along to get my father's trust then ingratiate himself onto my dads documents. He is also the executor. I was the co-trustee, but 2 months after all the agreements were made as to that arrangement, they coerced my dad into removing me, and instead now the lawyer is tge Trust Protector. He kept trying to tell my dad during the estate planning meeting we had, that my dad should appoint him as the trust protector and my dad didn't want to, we even talked about it after the meeting. I just found out 2 months ago after our new attorney finally got a copy of the trust, that I'm not on there anymore, but the lawyer is. My sister and both live out if state. It's been a total living nightmare. We desparately want to take care of our father and this agent will not let us even advocate for his quality of life (he has none) and when my dad's church friends try to advocate for my dad, they are told to stop "interfering" or stop "meddling" and have been bullied by my dads lawyer, he even threatened to ban her from visiting my father. His church friends are tge only ones advocating for my dad, as we have no voice, but they keep trying to shut them up, too. My dad is deteriorating under their watch. If wr had been able to get the POA changed, we would never have allowed this horrible neglect to take place. The facility is antiquated, and not sufficient for his needs but the agent won't let us advocate to get him moved to a better facility. But we are not ever going to give up, and are determined to succeed.