i walked in my mothers hospital room when she was recovering from her heart attack , sis was in the room too , mom was still a little delerious from her meds and was babbling at me about when to pull her plug . i told her ill pull your plug right gd NOW and started fumbling with a bunch of cables on her bedside monitoring equiptment . we all had a good laugh and mom was a little more careful about that kind of chatter in the future .
I have very mixed feelings on the subject of assisted suicide. That is why I’ve been doing some research on this topic, because I want to come up with my own opinion, as my profession will most likely be working in a hospital. I have looked up reasons to be against this and for this, but it is still just a controversial topic. Pros: • The major pro is obviously that the dying person will be able to stop suffering. As someone who has seen two loved ones be on hospice due to cancer, I can see the good in this. My grandfather spent almost a week out of his mind, not knowing what was going on, until he was eventually on so much morphine that he was asleep for days. So I understand why he wouldn’t have wanted to go through that, or if he said when the pain started getting uncontrollable that he would want to end his life then, not a week later. • Another main argument for this is that people get to die with dignity. I also understand this. While living with my grandfather, he did not have much dignity. He had to have his daughter and nurses give him a bath, feed him, brush his teeth, etc,. So I can only imagine how degrading it must feel to have other people have to do things for you that you once did without even thinking. • pbs/wgbh/frontline/article/the-shadow-side-of-assisted-suicide/ this is a great article that shows six doctors perspective of assisted suicide. I was very surprised to see so many doctors have different opinions. I really figured most of them would be totally against it, since their practice is about saving lives, not ending them. A doctor in the article said, “Similarly, in my work as a psychiatrist I’ve encountered families who have been devastated by suicide. Yet I’ve also encountered families that have been uplifted by the “final exit” of a loved one”. I think that is the balance here. While suicide can be devastating, a planned ending of one’s life, who is sick and ready to go one is different. Cons: • One major con for this is the violation of the Hippocratic Oath. The oath which physicians take saying they will do no harm, etc, is clearly not in agreement with assisted suicide. nyln/doctor-assisted-suicide-pros-and-cons-list describes it as, “The prohibition against killing stands as the first promise of self-restraint sworn by physicians to Hippocratic Oath. The oath considers human life as sacred; therefore, commanding respect. Therefore, consent to end one’s life from the patient himself does not make killing right”. • Another con is that it could open a floodgate of non-critical patient suicides. It always leads to people wanting more. So if we allow terminally-ill patients to participate in assisted suicide, then other people who aren’t terminally-ill will want to do it also. This is a con because it seems more like murderer, than helping someone who is about to pass away anyway. Conclusion: I believe that assisted suicide can be very beneficial, but it all depends on the situation. Every situation is different, and each situation should be examined thoroughly before any official decisions are made. I am still unsure of where I personally stand on the subject, but I can say now that I have a clearer view of the arguments on both sides. I don’t think I will ever have a definite saying on the subject unless, God forbid, I am faced with the situation either myself or with a family member.
OK, here we go. I have only one rage in life, and that has to do with death. I am 81 yrs old and would desperately like to have the ability to legally take my life at a time of my chosing --- I know I can jump off a bridge, shoot myself etc --- but I am talking about getting help so that I don't fail. It is my personal belief that when I reach that time when I am no longer able to participate in living, give something back to the world that gave me so much, I should be able to bow out gracefully. I can't imagine living out my days in a nursing facility. I would never want to burden my children with caregiving. I think I will start researching the outfit in Switzerland!!
Shakingdustoff- have you read about the end of life actions of the elderly. Deciding not to eat or drink, get out of bed, etc, are part of a person withdrawing from life. Give her peace. Love her for who she is and don't pressure her to be something she no longer can be.
Please believe me, I saw it with my mother. My sisters could not accept her dying and put pressure on her to do things she no longer wanted to do.. She craved someone to sit and talk gently with her and let her know she was loved.
Having just watched my brother die in "comfort care" this is a very tender subject for me. My brother wrote living wills at two different times at a lawyer's office and it still did not prevent three months of suffering/torture.
After brain surgery, we were told he needed a temporary trach and stomach feeding tube to start his therapy and recovery. They were never removed. Therapy was rarely done because he couldn't participate in therapy when upper and downer drugs were in his system. His body and muscle mass became weaker with everyday and we knew that he would never return to his home.
I understood how much torture he was in from seeing him with a trach strapped tightly to his neck. I saw suctioning done that caused violent coughing to the point of his face red and purple. I watched his poor body rolled in bed and strapped down uncomfortably with his arm stretched out behind him in an awkward manner. I saw CNA's clean up his bottom after a bowel movement and knew how it embarrassed him. I knew he was uncomfortable from having a foley catheter in his penis for three months. I saw the degradation that calls itself intensive care in a LTAC hospital and having no privacy until I insisted that he have a private room on his 70th birthday, a month after he was admitted. I saw what passed as nourishment through a tube inserted through his abdomen into his stomach. He could not tell us if he had pain or an itch. I know he was frightened when nurses or a CNA's did things to him without saying what they were doing and even verbally abusing him.
We just had to guess what he needed most of the time. He could mouth a few words unless they had given him uppers and downers to get him on "their" schedule. Some days, he just lay and stared at the ceiling.
After almost three months of being restrained, hands tied at his side, unless a family member was with him, he was able to communicate to his daughter and in front of medical personnel, to let him die.
I spent days reading the Bible to him. Talking about our Lord and Savior. Reminding him of God's love for him. Finally I held his hand during his last breaths that released him from this world.
Would I have granted his wish for assisted suicide? I don't know. If he could have talked and told me that is what he wanted, then it is very possible that I would have.
The medical community played god first by trying to "fix a defect" so please don't judge his family for allowing him to be at peace now.
Don't judge until you are in that position of seeing a loved one suffer, knowing all along that even your old dog was given a more peaceful end to his life.
It was not an assisted suicide but all nourishment and medicine except morphine were removed from him so the outcome could only be death. It took 8 days, June 8 until June 16th, 2014 before he passed away at Life Care LTAC in Rocky Mount, NC
Yes, my heart still aches over what he suffered and I am still searching for answers. That is why I am on this website.... to find out what could we have done differently.
The subject of suicide in the face of unbearable suffering and unrelenting expense has long been on my mind possibly because there was an assisted suicide in our family many years ago. The mother was a registered nurse, but the doctor she served trusted and admired her and allowed her to take more responsibility in his practice than was common at the time. She was more like today's physician's assistant. This was back in the day when doctors made home visits.
Anyway, the nurse's son developed stomach cancer and was in excruciating pain. The nurse, who was my great aunt, fed him an overdose of morphine that killed him. Her doctor covered up the fact but told her she must retire and never practice nursing again, which she did. Great-Aunt Charlotte was forthcoming with a few members of her family and soon the story became a source of late night ethical and religious debate.
As a mother, daughter, and granddaughter, I know what a burden it is to watch someone you love die an inch at a time and suffer. I've never lost a child, but our son went through nearly a decade of surgeries, extended bed rest, physical therapy, and loss of work from back pain. A fusion finally gave him the opportunity to live a normal life for nearly two decades. Now the screws in his back have worked loose and he's nearly back to where he was 19 years ago.
One of my grandmothers had a stroke in her early 70s and was never the same again. In addition to mental confusion, she had physical issues that kept her pretty sedentary. She finally died from complications following a broken hip. My other grandmother died 20 years later after breaking her hip; she never recovered from the surgery.
My father slipped away from us over the course of 20 years. His mind failed. Cancer finally stepped in and killed him.
My mother's body just basically shut down. Like her mother, she suffered from arthritis. She was so bent that both her arms were out of their shoulder sockets at the time she died. It was terribly painful for her to dress, bathe, even comb her hair.
Did any of them ask to be put out of their misery? No. Would I have helped provide a method for any of them to end their suffering had they asked? I honestly don't know.
During the family discussions regarding great-Aunt Charlotte, I had developed the notion that I would want to commit suicide rather than suffer for weeks or months at the hands of a killer like stomach cancer. But I also concluded that I should provide for that eventuality myself rather than to expect someone I loved to do it for me. I can't imagine putting someone I love in the position of paying for an expensive defense and risking a jail sentence to relieve my suffering.
I do firmly believe that the matter of suicide in the face of certain, lingering death or even longtime debility should be left up to the patient, not a bureaucracy.
No matter what beliefs or opinions we hold for ourselves today, we cannot know until we are faced with that situation. I certainly don't want to be warehoused or made to endure long-term suffering because of someone else's beliefs.
Shakingdustoff- you should ask your question in the Q&A section so you can get the proper exposure to have your questions answered. There are a lot of compassionate people here with tremendous experience that can help. Everyone here is a caregiver and your struggles are not unique... this particular thread is an article. However if you are looking for assistance in helping your mom commit suicide- then LEP attorney -above- may wish the business. Personally I find it sickening that such articles are on a SUPPORT website for the aging and dying and find it no different than a funeral director hanging out at the emergency room- but at least they wait for death to happen. And as for LEP- if you care to message me personally I will gladly send you the UCC supportive documents, the Birth Certificate filing law of USA citizens registered with the CROWN, as well as supporting evidence from the Fidelity website. You are well aware of prisoner CUSIP# if you are an attorney but obviously you aren't aware of its multiple uses. I was an insurance agent for 19 years and carry all manner of investment licenses however, I left my lucrative career when a blithering idiot challenged my paradigm - and the idiot enlightened me to the truth. I also realized my Moral compass no longer parallels with the degenerative nonsense state of our world. Attorney, Lawyers, and Judges under the BAR are the collective lynch-pin.
I don't have the time or interest to discuss this with you. But your points had nothing to do with the topic. And since I'm a former attorney, I think I've researched the law. Discuss the help this caregiver needs from us, and respond to posts that ask about your ridiculous judgmental beliefs.
And yes- killing people for inheritance has happened. But killing people to collect death derivatives off citizens is big government business. Now don't respond until you educate yourself on the birth certificate bond and social security number bond- and look yours up on Fidelity. Government collects with every death.
What difference does my spiritual belief have? (I wouldn't touch religions with a 100 ft pole) The person above me also feels assisted was something he couldn't do but since he didn't say why? You my dear have not read obamacare- I suggest you do. Palin was accused of exaggerating and now- Liberal MSNBC stated, and I quote "looks like those we called conspirators were right" as they referred to the chapter and vs regarding a selective right of the dr to refuse care which is Eugenics.. I believe I said laws and politics have no business making these laws and turning to more holistic ways is a better option. Socialized medicine and life and death issues need to stay out of government. And I am glad you are one of the very few lucky obamacare people- I am 60 and was told that the treatments for my spinal condition that I have had for 8 years is no longer covered due to Obamacare restrictions. And my premiums went up 50% and my deductible 30%. Refusing my treatments will excellerate my disease- instead of being in a wheelchair in 10 years I may look at next year. So yes, Government will destroy healthcare and end lives pre-maturly and holistic options may be all we have- unless they ban them which they are trying to do. I worked for 40 years and was forced to buy Social Security- and promises back then have been lost in the years. GOVERNMENT HAS ZERO ethics.
Nana2Nanny. I totally disagree with you re anyone (except a downright murderer) killing a parent for money. ObamaCare isn't the "death sentence" the politicians have made it out to be. It's been very helpful for me, though not exactly cheap. But while our politicians fight it, think about the fact they have a LOT of perks: 3 months of vacation; great health insurance & retirement and more. They are the last people I'd look to for objectivity. After reading your response, it is obvious you are bringing your religious beliefs into this discussion, which is not the topic (I believe), so I will end it there. If you aren't able to be objective, it's not worth going further with a response.
I think the choice to end one's life if they are terminally ill is their right. However, I could never do it for/to someone. My mom asked me to do that years ago if anything serious happened to her health. I told her I couldn't live with myself it I did that.
I personally could never decide or help a person to end their life. I do believe a person has the right to die with dignity or never have to suffer excruciating pain from a terminal illness. It is an individual choice. Unfortunately there is no health care directive that allows an individual person to choose their right to die under certain circumstances. I am glad there is hospice care. No one should ever have to suffer when end of life is nearing.
Lord no- although I certainly understand the reasons someone would entertain this I think it's sets up lots of lawsuits. how many I'm grateful children would claim that they assisted their parents with their death just to collect money? I think it's dangerous when we start crossing moral lines and play God- .Just look at Obamacare and the recommendation of withholding medication from people who are nearing the end of an era. This is a precursor to a eugenics. I'm coming at this from an ethical point of view and certainly a spiritual point of view but I think that the loss of both of those qualities is taking an entry to the wrong side of town. I was around when abortion was made legal and all kinds of guidelines were put in place. Look what ended up happening- partial birth abortion. Anytime you are dealing with the life of another human being and politics get involved its a bad recipe. it rends my heart to see this even being discussed. and I am NOT heartland because I have witnessed the death of my parents who suffered. Maybe we should start looking to nature and holistic ways for caring for those who are at the end of their lives. Our ancient ancestors seemed to have a better handle on the sacred event called death.
As the daughter of a registered nurse, now deceased, my Mom told me many things that she saw in her career. It was hard for her to deal with patients who clearly were in great pain and begged to end their lives but because of the restrictions of society, she could do nothing . Personally, I don't think that it is a crime to help someone , who still is in sound mind, to end their pain. After all, look at the way society has come accept some things---legalized abortion, you can now smoke pot legally in Colorado, marriage between two persons of the same sex. The attitudes of people have changed significantly over the last century and it is just a matter of time that I think assisted suicide , although still regarded by some as an offense to God, will be accepted by more people. Just my opinion.
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Assisted Suicide and Elders: How Far Would a Loving Caregiver Go?
Pros:
• The major pro is obviously that the dying person will be able to stop suffering. As someone who has seen two loved ones be on hospice due to cancer, I can see the good in this. My grandfather spent almost a week out of his mind, not knowing what was going on, until he was eventually on so much morphine that he was asleep for days. So I understand why he wouldn’t have wanted to go through that, or if he said when the pain started getting uncontrollable that he would want to end his life then, not a week later.
• Another main argument for this is that people get to die with dignity. I also understand this. While living with my grandfather, he did not have much dignity. He had to have his daughter and nurses give him a bath, feed him, brush his teeth, etc,. So I can only imagine how degrading it must feel to have other people have to do things for you that you once did without even thinking.
• pbs/wgbh/frontline/article/the-shadow-side-of-assisted-suicide/ this is a great article that shows six doctors perspective of assisted suicide. I was very surprised to see so many doctors have different opinions. I really figured most of them would be totally against it, since their practice is about saving lives, not ending them. A doctor in the article said, “Similarly, in my work as a psychiatrist I’ve encountered families who have been devastated by suicide. Yet I’ve also encountered families that have been uplifted by the “final exit” of a loved one”. I think that is the balance here. While suicide can be devastating, a planned ending of one’s life, who is sick and ready to go one is different.
Cons:
• One major con for this is the violation of the Hippocratic Oath. The oath which physicians take saying they will do no harm, etc, is clearly not in agreement with assisted suicide. nyln/doctor-assisted-suicide-pros-and-cons-list describes it as, “The prohibition against killing stands as the first promise of self-restraint sworn by physicians to Hippocratic Oath. The oath considers human life as sacred; therefore, commanding respect. Therefore, consent to end one’s life from the patient himself does not make killing right”.
• Another con is that it could open a floodgate of non-critical patient suicides. It always leads to people wanting more. So if we allow terminally-ill patients to participate in assisted suicide, then other people who aren’t terminally-ill will want to do it also. This is a con because it seems more like murderer, than helping someone who is about to pass away anyway.
Conclusion:
I believe that assisted suicide can be very beneficial, but it all depends on the situation. Every situation is different, and each situation should be examined thoroughly before any official decisions are made. I am still unsure of where I personally stand on the subject, but I can say now that I have a clearer view of the arguments on both sides. I don’t think I will ever have a definite saying on the subject unless, God forbid, I am faced with the situation either myself or with a family member.
Please believe me, I saw it with my mother. My sisters could not accept her dying and put pressure on her to do things she no longer wanted to do.. She craved someone to sit and talk gently with her and let her know she was loved.
After brain surgery, we were told he needed a temporary trach and stomach feeding tube to start his therapy and recovery. They were never removed. Therapy was rarely done because he couldn't participate in therapy when upper and downer drugs were in his system. His body and muscle mass became weaker with everyday and we knew that he would never return to his home.
I understood how much torture he was in from seeing him with a trach strapped tightly to his neck. I saw suctioning done that caused violent coughing to the point of his face red and purple. I watched his poor body rolled in bed and strapped down uncomfortably with his arm stretched out behind him in an awkward manner. I saw CNA's clean up his bottom after a bowel movement and knew how it embarrassed him. I knew he was uncomfortable from having a foley catheter in his penis for three months. I saw the degradation that calls itself intensive care in a LTAC hospital and having no privacy until I insisted that he have a private room on his 70th birthday, a month after he was admitted. I saw what passed as nourishment through a tube inserted through his abdomen into his stomach. He could not tell us if he had pain or an itch. I know he was frightened when nurses or a CNA's did things to him without saying what they were doing and even verbally abusing him.
We just had to guess what he needed most of the time. He could mouth a few words unless they had given him uppers and downers to get him on "their" schedule. Some days, he just lay and stared at the ceiling.
After almost three months of being restrained, hands tied at his side, unless a family member was with him, he was able to communicate to his daughter and in front of medical personnel, to let him die.
I spent days reading the Bible to him. Talking about our Lord and Savior. Reminding him of God's love for him. Finally I held his hand during his last breaths that released him from this world.
Would I have granted his wish for assisted suicide? I don't know. If he could have talked and told me that is what he wanted, then it is very possible that I would have.
The medical community played god first by trying to "fix a defect" so please don't judge his family for allowing him to be at peace now.
Don't judge until you are in that position of seeing a loved one suffer, knowing all along that even your old dog was given a more peaceful end to his life.
It was not an assisted suicide but all nourishment and medicine except morphine were removed from him so the outcome could only be death. It took 8 days, June 8 until June 16th, 2014 before he passed away at Life Care LTAC in Rocky Mount, NC
Yes, my heart still aches over what he suffered and I am still searching for answers. That is why I am on this website.... to find out what could we have done differently.
Anyway, the nurse's son developed stomach cancer and was in excruciating pain. The nurse, who was my great aunt, fed him an overdose of morphine that killed him. Her doctor covered up the fact but told her she must retire and never practice nursing again, which she did. Great-Aunt Charlotte was forthcoming with a few members of her family and soon the story became a source of late night ethical and religious debate.
As a mother, daughter, and granddaughter, I know what a burden it is to watch someone you love die an inch at a time and suffer. I've never lost a child, but our son went through nearly a decade of surgeries, extended bed rest, physical therapy, and loss of work from back pain. A fusion finally gave him the opportunity to live a normal life for nearly two decades. Now the screws in his back have worked loose and he's nearly back to where he was 19 years ago.
One of my grandmothers had a stroke in her early 70s and was never the same again. In addition to mental confusion, she had physical issues that kept her pretty sedentary. She finally died from complications following a broken hip. My other grandmother died 20 years later after breaking her hip; she never recovered from the surgery.
My father slipped away from us over the course of 20 years. His mind failed. Cancer finally stepped in and killed him.
My mother's body just basically shut down. Like her mother, she suffered from arthritis. She was so bent that both her arms were out of their shoulder sockets at the time she died. It was terribly painful for her to dress, bathe, even comb her hair.
Did any of them ask to be put out of their misery? No. Would I have helped provide a method for any of them to end their suffering had they asked? I honestly don't know.
During the family discussions regarding great-Aunt Charlotte, I had developed the notion that I would want to commit suicide rather than suffer for weeks or months at the hands of a killer like stomach cancer. But I also concluded that I should provide for that eventuality myself rather than to expect someone I loved to do it for me. I can't imagine putting someone I love in the position of paying for an expensive defense and risking a jail sentence to relieve my suffering.
I do firmly believe that the matter of suicide in the face of certain, lingering death or even longtime debility should be left up to the patient, not a bureaucracy.
No matter what beliefs or opinions we hold for ourselves today, we cannot know until we are faced with that situation. I certainly don't want to be warehoused or made to endure long-term suffering because of someone else's beliefs.
After reading your response, it is obvious you are bringing your religious beliefs into this discussion, which is not the topic (I believe), so I will end it there. If you aren't able to be objective, it's not worth going further with a response.