Just thinking about SCL Caritas Clinic makes my blood boil. The only thing that makes sense is reporting them to the Medical Board. But I would record my visit. Every cell phone has a recorder or buy one of those small recorders. I also say that those student doctors have no business doing healthcare for seniors. Frankly, I am ready to completely drop out of any healthcare, and that includes Medicare. Why bother if they bully. I will just do natural care myself. SCL is predatory. Most elderly can outlive cancer because cells replicate more slowly.
It is not only doctors and nurses who bully but the Caritas Clinic SCL in Denver, Colorado is terrible. They don't answer the phone, and if they do answer, immediately put you on hold for 30 minutes and never come back. They take 3 or 4 months to give referrals, send letters of dismissal when you file a complaint. They do this to people in their 70's and older. They don't process medicaid paperwork timely to keep homecare for elderly, blind and disabled and when SCL patient relations manager Lisa Foster at St. Joseph's Hospital in Denver was contacted, she made excuses. We need a METOO movement for the elderly being bullied by clinics and staff at Caritas Clinic SCL.
My octogenarian spouse has stage 4 cancer and is currently taking a targeted drug with many potential and serious side effects. Before this, he had been on a clinical trial at a cancer hospital, and although the drug he was given shrank his tumors dramatically, he almost died from the side effects, and we were told that the pharmaceutical firm that sponsored the trial insisted on the highest dose or nothing. (His medication and diary were confiscated. "Too risky," said his then oncologist, who spoke little English.)
When the clinical trial ended abruptly, my husband told his new local oncologist, who works for one of a chain of cancer-treatment centers, that he was suffering from extreme exhaustion, and the doctor mocked him, saying, What do you expect? You're 86 years old and have stage 4 lung cancer." There was no suggestion of anything that could be done to improve energy, and the patient had to sleep, or at least lie down and rest, after the slightest exertion. The doctor didn't even ask for examples of what exhausted the patient, who at the time was worried because although he was never athletic, could now not walk up a slight asphalt incline to an outpatient lab or, after parking his car in a supermarket lot, walk to the market without feeling faint. He then had to rest on a bench before going to a couple of aisles to pick up a few household necessities. This is just an example of how this physician ridiculed my husband when he might have been able to elicit more specific information from him and then helped him. There are many reasons for extreme fatigue, and the doctor never considered that my husband was taking a beta blocker for tachycardia, and his heart rate was further lowered by the cancer drug. (His pulse was 46 by the time he consulted his cardiologist who didn't know how the cancer drug worked, the capsule he took could not be halved, and there was no lower dose, was unable to prescribe another beta blocker after trying one that my husband couldn't tolerate at all. After this, the cardiologist was unavailable for comment, and my husband could speak only with his nurse, which he did thrice in an effort to decide what course of action to take on his own. (I guess, that in this way, litigation could be avoided by the cardiologist.)
When my husband, who is extremely hard of hearing and suffers from mild cognitive impairment, spoke, at the local doctor's office, while his oncologist was speaking, the oncologist became angry and asked how many times my husband expected him to repeat what he said. "Focus!", he commanded. Although I have often been frustrated by my husband's inability to pay attention and to listen to what I am saying, I'm his wife and not his health-care provider. When the oncologist sees me getting frustrated with my husband, he mocks both of us. He can't seem to diffuse a tense interaction--only to escalate one.
At our first visit to the local oncologist, I asked how we could get my husband's blood-test results, and the oncologist said we didn't need them as they were his to worry about so that we didn't have to. This sounded incredibly 20th-century, patronizing, and paternalistic to me, but eventually we can get the results by visiting the office or by accessing them on the patient portal. Since the doctor knew that the results were available to us in this way, why was he abusing us by seeming to withhold documents to which we, as patient and wife, were entitled to? Did he become a doctor because he needed to be in charge 24/7 and often got away with this unacceptable behavior?
Yesterday, the oncologist lambasted my husband because every time they meet (three times total?), the doctor asks how he is, and my husband sighs and starts to recount his symptoms, which can be extremely troubling and anxiety-provoking. The doctor scolded him because "you complain every time you visit." Is a (likely terminal) patient with serious health challenges just supposed to say, when asked how he's been, "Fine thanks, and you?" A doctor's visit is not a social interaction, and the patient has waited for weeks for important professional face time. My husband is being intimidated and marginalized.
I finally asked the doctor if I might express myself in just a couple of minutes, and he agreed to this. I told the doctor that like him, I become very impatient with my husband and express impatience and anger, but it's important to remember that my husband has health conditions as well as personality traits and understandable high anxiety, all of which we should try our darndest to respect and accommodate. The doctor nodded appreciatively, so we left things at that, but I don't think the doctor's behavior will change because he craves control, is allowed only some 15 minutes to see patients and to consider their complex problems, and also because my husband plans to return to the cancer hospital for a scan and consult next week, a fact that he deliberately withheld from the local doctor in an effort not to enrage him further. The chain of cancer centers and the cancer hospital have a professional relationship in terms of research, but the local oncologist has no interest in partnering with a cancer-hospital doctor to share care, ideas, new and promising therapies that might extend life, etc. He's still vocally furious that my husband is taking the cancer drug in the dosage provided by his original cancer-hospital doctor and not in the lower dose that he would have ordered, assuming that he could have gotten this from his pharmacy source, which would not necessarily have been possible or prompt. I can't imagine keeping our next appointment with the local doctor and then being lambasted for going elsewhere for a scan that we agreed to have locally. I dislike conflict as much as the local oncologist seems to thrive on it.
When health care becomes contentious and combative (the fact that I was a witness didn't stop the local doctor from expressing his disapproval and intense impatience), it is surely time to move on, which is a shame because I think the local doctor is alert, aware, well-educated, experienced, and competent. I am impressed by some of the tests he has run and the treatment plans he has made to avoid serious adverse reactions to tests.
Many oncologists see their patients die no matter how they try to offer them the best modern medicine, so their sympathy, empathy, and efforts may not be appreciated, and this can make them resentful and even hostile. Cancer can still, in 2017, outwit the best oncologists. Where are the respect, admiration, and gratitude?
Still, an oncologist could have been a research scientist or a podiatrist--a writer or an editor. His or her choice. If he or she discovers that he or she doesn't have the requisite emotional stamina, he or she should change careers. Based on what was shared verbally and what I have experienced, I suspect that when this oncologist's sons graduate from high school, the doctor will switch to an academic career at a major medical center. Meanwhile, his patients may have to accept his unacceptable abuse or hope to find someone kind, caring, and impressively gifted healer elsewhere.
My physician of 30 years retired and since then it has been hard to get care. After pain was very consistent, finally got the bad word from a bone scan. That raised new issues when assigned to a doctor who was pretty unhelpful. Went to a clinic hoping for at least treatment I could afford and assigned a "student" doctor. Horrible! No examination of advanced osteoporosis hip and femur. Lots of pain. Said I did not have pain I had anxiety. Spent 99.9 percent of the visit typing on a computer with her back to me. Then asked me for the scan report that I gave the clinic and was on her computer screen. I did nothing to this women. She was just nasty, rude, and I was almost in tears. Have no idea what the problem was. I refused a second mammography because I knew it was about a lipoma that was biopsied. Went to get that file from Medical Records and then the nurse started making fun of me fo doing that. I thought it might be helpful. So many things change as you age and your dignity is the last thing you don't realize that dignity is so precious until someone takes it away.
Good for you, lily, for standing up to your grandmother's doctor. As a caregiver for my mother, I have to deal with a doctor I intensely dislike and mistrust on a professional level. But my mother adores him. During my years in nursing I witnessed physicians bully families into agreeing to futile treatments that caused nothing but additional pain, anxiety, and misery for very elderly and terminally ill patients in their very last days. It is common practice, and a big money maker in many hospitals for docs to zero in on the elderly nursing home patient who either has no family or family that is only remotely involved. These poor folks will get every consulting physician, test, treatment and medication Medicare or their private insurance will pay for regardless of the patient's actual need. Famiy or other patient advocate who stand up for the patient will be sized up and attacked with intimidation or the patient is quickly discharged. It is strictly business.
I had my Grandmothers Doctor accuse me of trying to murder her when I asked him to provide her a morphine pump because she was grimacing in pain. He said she was SMILING not grimacing and he said he "Knew the effect I was after for asking for that but it wasn't going to happen". He had removed her from hospice after her original doctor put her in there ( she had a cancer tumor the size of a grapefruit in her neck death was very near). I told him off in front of the entire hospital tell him who the hell did he think he was to pretend to know my Grandmother and what she was feeling. ( He said he had become attached to her). What he was attached to was the kickback for giving her drugs to her that were not working. I later read a story about how they experiment on people like this with drugs to get kickbacks from the drug companies. IN the end the hospital social worker filed a complaint against him on my behalf. I was taking care of my Mom in another state and had come to finalize her affairs he dragged out her suffering for 7 weeks. Thank God for the Hospice nurses who were so supportive.
I myself have had fair luck with doctors, I can handle bullies or not come back - I had one who was such an arrogant prick that he refused to understand it when I just mispronounced a word, another who was demeaning and self-righteous and sanctamonious about any lifestyle but his, one problem with some doctors is that they have that G-O-D complex some get along with their diplomas. They like to think they are the most intelligent person in the room, when in actuallity they are intelligent in one subject. I have actually met some doctors that were remarkably stupid in a number of ways. With my recently deceased 94 year old mom, we were very lucky in her GP, he was understanding and willing to listen. I myself noticed after some time had elapsed that you could not give mom any new medication at the dose a doctor thought she should have, I talked him into cutting any dosage in half and if she tolerated it, to work up, not the other way. She could not tolerate a surprising number of medications. After a time, he convinced himself that He had thought of this, I let him go ahead and think it. But, he once sent us to a specialist, a young man who had the G-O-D complex, I suggested the same thing to him and he gave me a sideways look like I was a bug that just crawled out from under the rug. If looks could kill, etc. I got back at him by badmouthing him to everyone of his "colligues" that I could find. As for taking time by self-diagnosis, I have found it necessary to read up and be prepared, often they want to take the easiest approch or ignore a complaint entirely. That was the reason for the mispronunciation (not far off, incidentally) that I mentioned earlier.
7 Comments
First Oldest
First
Doctors Who Bully
When the clinical trial ended abruptly, my husband told his new local oncologist, who works for one of a chain of cancer-treatment centers, that he was suffering from extreme exhaustion, and the doctor mocked him, saying, What do you expect? You're 86 years old and have stage 4 lung cancer." There was no suggestion of anything that could be done to improve energy, and the patient had to sleep, or at least lie down and rest, after the slightest exertion. The doctor didn't even ask for examples of what exhausted the patient, who at the time was worried because although he was never athletic, could now not walk up a slight asphalt incline to an outpatient lab or, after parking his car in a supermarket lot, walk to the market without feeling faint. He then had to rest on a bench before going to a couple of aisles to pick up a few household necessities. This is just an example of how this physician ridiculed my husband when he might have been able to elicit more specific information from him and then helped him. There are many reasons for extreme fatigue, and the doctor never considered that my husband was taking a beta blocker for tachycardia, and his heart rate was further lowered by the cancer drug. (His pulse was 46 by the time he consulted his cardiologist who didn't know how the cancer drug worked, the capsule he took could not be halved, and there was no lower dose, was unable to prescribe another beta blocker after trying one that my husband couldn't tolerate at all. After this, the cardiologist was unavailable for comment, and my husband could speak only with his nurse, which he did thrice in an effort to decide what course of action to take on his own. (I guess, that in this way, litigation could be avoided by the cardiologist.)
When my husband, who is extremely hard of hearing and suffers from mild cognitive impairment, spoke, at the local doctor's office, while his oncologist was speaking, the oncologist became angry and asked how many times my husband expected him to repeat what he said. "Focus!", he commanded. Although I have often been frustrated by my husband's inability to pay attention and to listen to what I am saying, I'm his wife and not his health-care provider. When the oncologist sees me getting frustrated with my husband, he mocks both of us. He can't seem to diffuse a tense interaction--only to escalate one.
At our first visit to the local oncologist, I asked how we could get my husband's blood-test results, and the oncologist said we didn't need them as they were his to worry about so that we didn't have to. This sounded incredibly 20th-century, patronizing, and paternalistic to me, but eventually we can get the results by visiting the office or by accessing them on the patient portal. Since the doctor knew that the results were available to us in this way, why was he abusing us by seeming to withhold documents to which we, as patient and wife, were entitled to? Did he become a doctor because he needed to be in charge 24/7 and often got away with this unacceptable behavior?
Yesterday, the oncologist lambasted my husband because every time they meet (three times total?), the doctor asks how he is, and my husband sighs and starts to recount his symptoms, which can be extremely troubling and anxiety-provoking. The doctor scolded him because "you complain every time you visit." Is a (likely terminal) patient with serious health challenges just supposed to say, when asked how he's been, "Fine thanks, and you?" A doctor's visit is not a social interaction, and the patient has waited for weeks for important professional face time. My husband is being intimidated and marginalized.
I finally asked the doctor if I might express myself in just a couple of minutes, and he agreed to this. I told the doctor that like him, I become very impatient with my husband and express impatience and anger, but it's important to remember that my husband has health conditions as well as personality traits and understandable high anxiety, all of which we should try our darndest to respect and accommodate. The doctor nodded appreciatively, so we left things at that, but I don't think the doctor's behavior will change because he craves control, is allowed only some 15 minutes to see patients and to consider their complex problems, and also because my husband plans to return to the cancer hospital for a scan and consult next week, a fact that he deliberately withheld from the local doctor in an effort not to enrage him further. The chain of cancer centers and the cancer hospital have a professional relationship in terms of research, but the local oncologist has no interest in partnering with a cancer-hospital doctor to share care, ideas, new and promising therapies that might extend life, etc. He's still vocally furious that my husband is taking the cancer drug in the dosage provided by his original cancer-hospital doctor and not in the lower dose that he would have ordered, assuming that he could have gotten this from his pharmacy source, which would not necessarily have been possible or prompt. I can't imagine keeping our next appointment with the local doctor and then being lambasted for going elsewhere for a scan that we agreed to have locally. I dislike conflict as much as the local oncologist seems to thrive on it.
When health care becomes contentious and combative (the fact that I was a witness didn't stop the local doctor from expressing his disapproval and intense impatience), it is surely time to move on, which is a shame because I think the local doctor is alert, aware, well-educated, experienced, and competent. I am impressed by some of the tests he has run and the treatment plans he has made to avoid serious adverse reactions to tests.
Many oncologists see their patients die no matter how they try to offer them the best modern medicine, so their sympathy, empathy, and efforts may not be appreciated, and this can make them resentful and even hostile. Cancer can still, in 2017, outwit the best oncologists. Where are the respect, admiration, and gratitude?
Still, an oncologist could have been a research scientist or a podiatrist--a writer or an editor. His or her choice. If he or she discovers that he or she doesn't have the requisite emotional stamina, he or she should change careers. Based on what was shared verbally and what I have experienced, I suspect that when this oncologist's sons graduate from high school, the doctor will switch to an academic career at a major medical center. Meanwhile, his patients may have to accept his unacceptable abuse or hope to find someone kind, caring, and impressively gifted healer elsewhere.
During my years in nursing I witnessed physicians bully families into agreeing to futile treatments that caused nothing but additional pain, anxiety, and misery for very elderly and terminally ill patients in their very last days.
It is common practice, and a big money maker in many hospitals for docs to zero in on the elderly nursing home patient who either has no family or family that is only remotely involved. These poor folks will get every consulting physician, test, treatment and medication Medicare or their private insurance will pay for regardless of the patient's actual need. Famiy or other patient advocate who stand up for the patient will be sized up and attacked with intimidation or the patient is quickly discharged. It is strictly business.