I have found in many situations of dealing with someone who just 'wants to argue', is to reply with "you could be right." It is not an agreement, but the other person has nothing left to argue about.

I would like to make an additional note about people who are abusive. Why on earth would you "grin and bear it" and never say a word. That does not shut them up - they will think you are weak and they will be even worse. Let them have it, no holds barred - put them in their place once and for all and set boundaries. Warn them if they continue acting inappropriately, you will break all contact with them and remove them from the home. Often that works. It did for me when I had to take care of someone a long time ago. When she got belligerant, I would let her have it and walk out. It worked beautifully. She usually stopped doing the bad things.

I just answered this but don't know where my comment disappeared so I am going to repeat my answer. If you have parents living with you who must always be right and who want to dictate to you on everything, then you must decide if you are going to let them do this. If not, and I hope you don't, you tell them in the most strict, definite terms they cannot behave this way and you simply will not tolerate it no matter what the circumstances. They will treat you with respect and courtesy or they must be removed from your presence - if that means getting them out of the home, then be prepared to do it. NO ONE - AND I MEAN NO ONE, should ever be willing to accept unacceptable behavior from anyone - no nastiness, sarcasm, screaming, and the list goes on. If you allow anyone to do that, then you are a fool - pure fool through and through. DO NOT ALLOW IT - EVER. But you too must be willing to be calm, polite, diplomatic, etc.

I know there are people who want to dictate and always be the boss and be right. If they are right in what is going on, that is one thing. But if they are NOT right and if it is beginning to affect the caretaker emotionally, mentally and physically, you must put them into their place in very strict, harsh terms - you will NOT allow them to act out and fight and otherwise be abusive or difficult. Tell them if they continue, you will find a way to remove them from the premises - and STICK TO IT.

This kind of relationship is horrible to endure. I have experienced it firsthand and for many years. These little series of events eventually metastasize, transforming a relationship into a grievous cycle of abuse.

You have to decide that you are going to take control over your life, starting with your mind and your mouth. This requires daily discipline. This requires becoming an adult even if your fifty years old. This requires an objective look at the relationship and reality in general.

You must honestly ascertain in what areas you are the benefactor and what areas you are the beneficiary, since most relationships are symbiotic in nature. Being in the right about one thing does not give you or your parent justification to be right about everything else; which really boils down to an argumentative tactic. Similarly you or your parent cannot dismiss your own burden-contribution to the relationship, despite the mountains of justification you might have. Life can be very unfair and putting more emphasis on feelings rather than facts can steer you in the wrong direction. You're going to have to learn to communicate more effectively which includes listening, absorbing, filtering and then speaking. Many times you just have to hold your tounge.

I won't put much more effort into this comment but once you learn to control yourself you need to understand the nature of the person you are dealing with. Are they mentally ill, confused, suffering aloud, justified, self righteous, bitter or just twisted. It could be a series of events leading to a total lack of peace. You need to have some idea what's going on; then don't accacerbate the situation. Get some professional advice for you and them if necessary. Make necessary changes in living accomodations, dialouge (no more threats or condemnation, ask/ give forgiveness even if not requited) and change behaviors (stop provoking/ stop enabling). You don't want to spend the rest of your life arguing with someone who in all likelyhood is not your enemy. However, in the end if you cannot come to some civil terms with your parent then maybe a relationship at a distance is the only solution.

One last thought, if you can put discernment, filled with facts and love, over Reaction, filled with feelings of entitlement and control, you should be on the right path to keeping your head and possibly the relationship.

I am also dealing with a stressful situation and jeannegibbs thank you so much for your perspective. My mom is 73 and is in remission from cancer. She also has a pacemaker for irreg heart rate. So, my struggle now is that I have attempted to set boundaries and she ignores them and then gets really mad when I remind her of them or when I refuse to answer the phone (she calls me at work!) She is also very condescending and pretty much thinks that she can talk to me or my son however she wants but the second I have a "certain tone" to my voice or "look unhappy" she is all over me and it starts a fight. I am at the end of my rope. There is so much more to this story than all of the above but I really need help figuring out how to deal with her...

I am dealing with my mother who is the care giver to my father and she has to always be right. She had a "rage" last week at me and I asked her not to yell and that I would not yell back at her, I then stop all talking to her and let her rage. I then changed the subject. I thought that my dad would be the problem but it seems to be my controlling mother. I have to deal with aging issues on both sides of the family at this time and now my mother thinks that it is "her" issue when it is about my father. I find it hard not to say "if you say you can take care of him by yourself then do it" but that is not fair. I just want peace and think that it does not have to be a was every time I see her. She is now acting as if nothing happened. As this was all happening, all I could think was my 12 year old never acted this way but I do remember her raging when we were young.

I would like to try that with my narcissistic aging mother, but its hard. ignoring her doesnt work. Arguing definitely doesn't work. Agreeing with her usually throws someone else under the bus, or gets a worst yelling at. Discussion usually ends up in her turning up the tv or playing with the iPad.
But she needs me.
my father has dementia and already was lazy.
she just had heart surgery and has many mobility issues. All the physical therapy she was given has been thrown out the window, because she wont do it on her own and wont listen to me.
im trapped.
i lost my job and all my money. Im financially and mentally trapped. If i put her in a home, i must fit the bill. If i wanted to hire help, i must fit the bill.
she owes me money and her sister owes her money, but ill never see it.
she loves me and needs me .. but im really a useless god damned person to her. She sais all she really needs to hear from me, is" yes or no."
its hard

Tik at least you are able to put yourself into an agreeable mode-I do admire you we do what works for us and you have accepted her behavior-with my late Mom I just did not respond to her many complaints about my sister and her husband so we did not fight.

My mom has always been a 'don't dispute my word' type of person AND must have the last word. I have to keep reminding myself its not possible to win an argument with her or to even have a civil debate. Mostly, I just try to keep my mouth shut and now she believes that I have become the most agreeable person and so patient! It takes me about 10 minutes into any visit to put myself into that mode - since I am not the most agreeable person nor the most patient...

It never really solves the problem of what he/she is arguing about. Sometimes there is a serious issue at hand, and it needs to be resolved.

Thank u so much. I will try what u said. Hope it works in time:)

Sebring give us an update I sure hope you listened to the great ideas that were posted for you and you got away from this abusive situation with you Dad who is abusing you even if you have to go to a shelter it would be better for you-I would have reported him to the police and any one else I could you do not deserve to be treated the way he has been treating you you need to detatch yourself from him.

((((((hugs))))) salt - Some (many?) seniors (and at 74 I am one) become very self centered as they get older. My mother is narcissistic - always has been - and thinks only of her needs/wants. I have had over 20 emails a day, and ended up in tears of frustration, as I was responding to many. Like you said - every thought had to be shared, and she got mad when I didn't respond, and when she gets mad she gets nasty. Also, she expected me to be her "servant", even though we live in different cities, by her choice, and I have my own health issues (I am 74, and she is 99, and very healthy.) The only way that I know how to deal with someone ike this is to set limits - boundaries. Self-centered parents manipulate their children by FOG - fear, guilt and obligation. You are not obligated to answer every phone call, or even talk on the phone daily, Have you an answering machine, or caller ID?. You are not obligated to do everything for your dad. Your first priority is yourself, and your family. And you are not obligated to listen to all the complaints. If you dad has some financial resources, someone can be hired to help with the things he cannot do himself. He may not like that, but you can refuse to do everything for him. You deserve a life too. My mother is in an ALF, and has a lady, an ex nurse, who runs a seniors care business, who shops for her and does other things`. Her doctor has specified home care for her for life, (help with dressing, prep of the foods she needs - we have food sensitivities - and so on.)

Your dad may get angry if you set limits, but in the long run relationships will be smoother. Figure out what you are prepared to do, (and nothing is written in stone, it can be changed later), and what you are not prepared to do. Limit answering the phone calls to what makes sense to you, look around for local resources to help your dad, let him know what you will do, and what he needs outside help for, and reclaim your life. As far as his fantasies of returning to work go, or runnng to the doctor a lot, I dont think there is much you can`, or need to do about those. Eventually he will have to accept reality, unless he has impaired judgement for some medical reason.`He may benefit from a greater social life than he has now, and you may be able to help him find a seniors - or other - group to join for that. When he was in real estate, he would have had a lot of people contact, and may be really missing it.

There are agencies who can help you find appropriate help for you dad. Others who know more about that in the states (I am in Canada), can help you, or if you look around this site you may find what you need.

Good luck, and let us know who you are doing.

Being a very independent person all his life and can no longer do anything he liked, all he does is complain about what he can't do. Running to a doctor for anything. He honestly thinks he is not old & will go back to selling real estate !
Balance is off, dropped foot, can't hear on thr phone & voice is shot! He calls me every time he has a thought & expects me to do everything.
I married & have a family to enjoy. HELP anyone!!!

thanks everyone for esponding, i always know im going to get careing ,smart answers here.im just getting kinda depressed here. ive got to snap out of it, i cant understand what the hell i did to deserve this.i guess thats why nobody else stepped in to help him, but here i go, im stupid..ill never be a caregiver again, this is too much. im cursed with feeling peoples emotions,im always there for anyone that asks, why isnt anyone ever there for me? i must have been a real horrible person last life or something..im doomed to be alone in this one..
ok, pity party over here, thanks again.. at least you guys care..

sebring - ((((((((hugs))))) I hate change too, so I understand that. jeanne has given you excellent advice - no good will come from staying in that abusive situation - and healthy behaviour on your part is more likely to cause your father to think about his choices, than you staying and taking it (but certainly not guaranteed) - #1 - look after you. Some people are very selfish. Why is really irrelevant. - that's how they are. You sound like a very resourceful person and I am sure you can rebuild your life. Do it for you - you are worth it. And let us know what steps you are taking as you do.
hugs and prayers
Joan

wow, you nailed it..i appreciate your telling me straight out, its what ive been thinking too.i never should have given up my sec8, but past is part, go forward, not backward.. ill keep telling myself that. ...why do people have to be so selfish? i dont get it..i hate change, i hate moving, but i hate feeling like this too. i know im a hard worker, if im gonna bust my butt remodleing, then why am i doing it for someone that doesnt appreciate it? change is so scary..but i know...i need to throw the dice here, hope that Gods smiling on me.
no.. your absolutly right, i just needed to hear it i guess.

Remember you have choices. So does your Dad. So does Mike. The only person whose choices you can control is you.

If Dad wants you back, that is a CHOICE you can make. There is nothing mandatory about it.

If Dad takes Mike back in, that his choice. It is a crazy choice, but not one you can control.

If Mike repents and wants to make things up to Dad, that is his chocie. If he is back to his old manipulative tricks, that is his choice. You can't control Mike's choices.

Take a good look in a mirror. That is the person whose choices you can control. You sound like you don't believe you have control. "I know me. I'll come back." That is the old you. The older wiser you knows you don't have to go back. That going back or not is a CHOICE.

If Mike harms your dad (and his dad), Mike is the one who needs forgiveness -- not you. YOU DO NOT CONTROL MIKE. YOU DO NOT CONTROL YOUR DAD. Look in the mirror again to see who you can control.

Counselling is an excellent idea. Follow through on it. Get some therapy. Get some support in making your choices. Get an objective professional listener you can talk about choices with.

Visit your friend. I don't think you need to figure out whether you are wanted or needed. Of course you are wanted. And you have a clear idea of what you are wanted for. The thing you really have to figure out is whether you want to continue to be used. You need to look at your entire range of choices, and take control over making choices that are good for YOU.

Sebring you are obviously not dumb. You've figured out what is going on, and you are quite articulate in telling it. Tell it to a social worker. Tell it to a counselor. Then make choices and act on those choices. You can better your life. But only if you take actions.

thanks, you give good advice, but i just hate all my work and pride in the house shot to hell.. well, id better face the fact that ships passed...
m going to go visit my friend for a few days, shes the only friend i even have anymore and thats because ive known her since jr high, illgive a cooling off period to figur out if im even wanted/needed back, i feel like he straight up used me when mike went to prison, its as if i was just here so he wouldnt be alone, to clean his house that litterely made me sick with open sores when i got here, just so when mike gets out, he cn move into a clean house.. well, mikes out.thats another thing. i feel like id never forgive myself if i left and mike attacked him .i helped him get a restrainig order, but that wont stop mike, what stopped him was me.but i dont want to have to shoot the guy.he scares me to death too! hes violent..if he breaks in this house, i can legaly shoot him, yeah, thats what im dealing with here....if im not here, dad lets mike back in. if dad flip flops and wants me back, i know me, ill come back.. stupid huh..anywho, id love or him and i to see a counsler but he wont. i need to know that its not in my head, am i that big a bitch? i cant allow myself to question my own guts, its never been wrong in the past. yes, i did predict something to this effect, but when my dad looked at me one day with shear terror in his eyes and said ' one of these days mikes gonna kill me' it sent chills down my spine and as much as i dont want to deal with mike, id never seen fear that bad in a WW2 vets eyes...boy when i get into a mess its a big one...

Whoa... your situation is distressing, but not hopeless.

Thanks for sharing your story in more detail.

You certainly have a lot of people around telling you that you are inferior, don't you? Your siblings referring to you as "the adopted," your father treating you like a servant, everyone willing to believe the worst of you. Well, if you really are inferior, stick around and continue to be treated accordingly.

My guess, based in part on your willingness to try to help your parents, is that you are not an inferior human being. Far from it. So accepting that role is kind of living a lie, isn't it? And that has to add to the stress you are feeling. If you were my sister or cousin or friend, here is what I would urge you to do, and that I would help you to do:
1. Get yourself a Social Worker. Have a meeting away from your father's house. Lay out your situation. See what services might be available to you and what options you have. Be very clear that you cannot continue in an abusive situation.
2. Get on a waiting list for Section 8 housing in your area.
3. Find temporary room and board while you are waiting for Section 8. Maybe the social worker will have suggestions.
4. Rent a storage unit. Move your furniture and applicances into it. When you find a more permanent living arangement you can decide what to keep and what to sell.
5. Give your family a 2 or 3 week notice that you are moving out, so they can make other arrangements for your Dad's care.
6. When you inherit half a house, take your share in cash.
7. Visit dad as often or as little as you please. Come as a daughter, not as a servant. If he gets nasty. simply say, "I'll come back when you are feeling more like having company," and leave.

And that is what I would tell you if you were my cousin or my sister. And that is what I'd help you with if we lived close together.

I don't know what you can/are allowed to do for work while receiving the ssi money. The social worker can advise you. With your experience you might consider working a few hours a week as a respite caregiver. Some of those clients might be nasty, too, but you'd know it wasn't personal and it would be over soon. And some would be quite pleasant. It might be fun, and a little extra cash.

It really isn't hopeless. But you have to take action. Nothing will be improved by you hanging around taking abuse and wondering what will happen to your refrigerator.

Start with getting a social worker on your side. If you already have a case manager, call him or her.

Stop taking abuse. Take action instead.

Good luck!

i gave up my section8 housing when i moved back here to help him.( after my mom died) without the sec8, i cant afford to pay rent anyplace.my health has been up and down since moving here, but im never down for long.it just so hard for me o even process that this man, loved by all, would give the shirt off his back to anybody but me,is behaving this way. i refuse to let myself question my own judgement, i know what i see, when i feel, what i remember when my mom was alive.( she would say similar things we all dismissed as crazy. he told her it was in her head so long she belived it, crawled into the backroom and never came out until sshe had to be put in a home) but im not crazy. i guess maybe the fact i was adopted makes me stupid loyal? i can take a lot of flak from people,but this is too much.i honestly belived that i moved in here for the long haul, to help him till he passed, then id live here in the house.but instead of him appreciating me, ive created a monster. my brother abused him badly, so ive been trying to undo the damage on the house.and ive done that.but since he knows im not going to beat him up, he treats me like IM the one that ran through his bank accounts, that beat him up, trashed his house, i guess i keep praying he will snap out of it, maybe a phase that older folks go through, but its not getting better.
see, i have no sense of entitlement. maybe its an adopted thing, but i dont feel i DESERVE the house..even though i have transformed it, im not out to be greedy, i just dont want to be homeless whenhes gone. i know the house is left to me and my sister ( their biological daughter) but since shes happily married with a great house in bakersfield, i figured she would let me live here, then if i sold the house, id give her half..it wasnt until moms funeral it went from 'oh, great job on the house, we appreciate it ' to 'the adopted thinks shes gonna get the house'..i dont even like to talk about division of a persons property while theyre still alive! i feel its so disrespectfull. but my sis has come over twice and walked around saying 'oh i dont want this clock,; ;picking out what they want/dont want even asking me 'what makes you call that refridgerator 'your fridge'? i said because i brought it from my 2 bd house i lived in when i moved here'. i traded my car and a car that had been given to me, and got a great GREAT deal on a sweet 2009 mustang..not one person congradulated me on it, of course they all assume i MADE my dad buy it.yeah, right, like he'd do that for me.he did loan me 2500 out of moms money when she died, but i paid him that money back,im not a golddigging person, ive always prided myself of that, and people are assuming that ive now taken over and making him buy me stuff and he doesnt tell them otherwise!! he lets everybody belive i am taking advantage of him, thats why i want no part of spending his money, i was the court to appoint an impartial party to do his monthly bills. somebody that can see that i havent used him or spent his money!! he did get me a credit card in my name off of his account,but i pay for my own charges.just because im that kind of person, ill take a loss now and again if it works out better in the long run.but im not a sucker, i see that he doesnt view me as his daughter anymore, im his slave, chattel propertywhen im sick he wont even open my door to ask if im ok.yet hes the guy that checks on sick people and reports it to the lodge.
i guess to answer your question why am i here? i dont know anymore. part of me is fiercly loyal, the other part says cut my losses and walk. but ive no place to go.i get 650 month for ssi,that ive been getting for years ( nothing to do with him or his care). i have no place to go.ive got my car and my dog.all my things are here, like my fridge, washer/dryer furniture, and if i leave my stuff will be given away,i dont know.. i dont know...,

sebring, I think I have missed some previous posts, so please excuse me if this has been covered. But why are you staying in this abusive situation? Why is it that you cannot afford to stay away long? Why are you giving him money to pay your charge card? If he is the one who needs assistance, how did you get into this situation of dependency? I hope that doesn't sound like a criticism I just truly would like to understand the dynamics here.

aune, i totally get that, and ive always made sure to be 'in the background' kind of thing, when he messes up, i quietly fix things, i dont make a big thing out of 'oh, look how lame you are,' i never do that, so why does he have to publicly humiliate me? thats what upsets me the most, i dont care when he takes credit for all i actually do, but for him to set me up to fall, thats not cool.
he recently stopped paying the amex bill even though i was giving him money for my card, he didnt bother to tell me, but he sure makes it a point to tell everyone how huge my bill is.. well, duh, it went totally unpaid for a few months, it was in the range i could easily afford, had he paid it. now i send payments stright to amex.but he STILL tells anyone that will listen how big a spender i am.why? i dont see why he goes so out of his way to make me look bad, im happy in the shadows here, ive completly turned this house around and ive taken a lot of pride in that, but i dont need others to tell me how great i am, he does.because im not telling him how gret he is that makes me evil...
i dont know. seems to me when one person ( my mom) goes insane in your home, its probably that person. when two people go insane in your home ( brother mike) its probably coincidence.but when three go insane, ( now me) its definatly you!!

I think people who have been healthy, independent & in charge of their life find it very difficult to rely on others to help them. Mainly because we can't do it their way. Our olders folks were a strong people. Let them do as much as they can for themselves. It helps them maintain that independence and self respect. We as caretakers have to remember we don't have to change personalities everytime we come into that person's presence. As Popeye says "I yam what I yam." While we can show grace, compassion & love, love does not mean being we need to be a emotional punching bag or a doormat for anyone,especially if they are being a bully.

my dads been that way for years, only because he didnt get a rise out of me, hes moved onto sabatogging me in public.. this i cannot tolerate.. its one thing to yell at me at home, to blame me for all the money problems ,not only in his house, but apperently the world, ( yes, world hunger? my fault too.) but he actually tried to slam me up against the wall the other day after my back had been killing me for 3 days!! even when my back is in pain, i can easily take an 85 yr old, but im not going to, i left.. i cant afford to stay gone long and im sooo dreading having to go back home...i cant do this crap alone, ive been asking, begging for help, im done.. i did not sign up to be abused here.

Some people are cantankerous by personality. I'd like to say that dementia can also play a role. I've heard one person in very early stage explain that she has lost confidence in so many things. When there is something she is confident that she knows she clings to it and defends her position, way beyond the value of the subject. She is dismayed at being wrong or uncertain so much that she has become very argumentative when she thinks she is right.

If this need to be right is a new behavior and the loved one has some dementia, this could be a factor. Knowing that should make it easier to simply let them be right.

Just agree with them, and they will stop arguing, since there aint nothing to debate on. Then consider going to your room or turning up the radio and say " I CANT HEAR YOU".

My husband does this to me all the time,almost every day. I am getting I can't stand to be around him alot.He will say the nastiest thing I just want to run. I don't have any answers for you but your not alone.I wish you luck

Most people seemed to accept what my husband said and it really bothered me one doc told him not to talk to his wife like that and he was right after that I did not go into exam rooms with him but later on a church member said to a friend who was also a relative that if he treats her like that in public I wonder how he treats her at home-I did decide to place him because I had health problems and he was so disagreeable and hard to care for a I realized I did not deserve his treatment of me. But by the end-he died before the medicaide process was done- I learned just to leave his space and not carry on a conversation because he wanted to argue all the time.