Mom gave us cash gifts for last five years.

This question is for the future. She is currently in a memory care center. When she exhausts her income I was just curious about the situation. By then it appears it may be past that five year look back point.

I would think that when Medicaid went through the qualifying process for your mother, they would have discovered the bank withdrawals for the past 5 years.

And I would like to know,how do you tell your 93 yr old parent they can't take cash out of their account? It's their money and they live in the moment.

I agree with you Maggie..seems like there's something wrong with this system..because if our parents could pay us,( their children), to help take care of them..seems like that would be less time/money Medicaid would have to pay. But I also agree that people who have the means shouldn't be able to give away all their money...like you said, everyone would be doing that and letting taxpayers pay for the care. So there has to be something in place to stop that. My Dad will be getting about $50,000 from the sale of his parents farm...I'm sure my Dad will want to give it to us, his children. Dad is already 90...so that means he needs to live another 5 years! :).

Unfortunately, it makes perfect sense. If we know that taxpayers are going to pay if we run out of money, who wouldn't give it all away? I don't mind THAT so much as I despise Medicaid's position that a loved one can't help with bills or pay a reasonable amount toward care giving without Medicaid disallowing those things.

THAT is just plain wrong. Most people aren't aware that, should their parents HAVE the money to pay them something for their 24/7 care, Medicaid will disallow that as well. Family care giving is considered a gift.

Seems to me our politicians should make sure that, at LEAST when you take someone into your own home to care for them, you can be paid, say, $1000 a month to help those people who 24/7 give up their lives . . .

But such is not the case unless one has a formal contract, keeps a daily log of duties, reports it as income and pays Federal/state taxes on it as well as SS.

I love it.. it;s the gift that you have to save for 5 years....LOL

WhatNow, the limit in 2014 is $14,000. And that's "per person." There's no limit on gift amounts. For instance, I can give $14,000 to my child, and $14,000 to his/her spouse. And $14,000 to each of their children. Ad infinitum. Those who receive these monetary gifts don't have to report it at all. That's without taking into account Medicaid, however.

If/when a person goes on Medicaid, they do a five-year look back to make sure one HASN'T gifted any money during that period of time. If they have, Medicaid uses a formula to deny Medicaid eligibility to make up for those gifts. They exclude X-number of months of coverage until that money is recouped. It's not pretty.

Parents are aloud to gift 13000 per year with NO accounting from ANYBODY.
Their children are allowed to report it on there income tax filing as gifted by parent with no tax.

And when I moved them here, I found cash all over the place...LOL I told my friend who helped move them that if I crashed the truck,, leave me and grab the bag with the cash!

Thank you Pams.. good to know. The car loan was from a check from Dad's account, and the CC s were not very much, just made them feel better about moving in. Mom routinely drops alot at the casino... LOL. I was mainly wondering about the same exact amont of cash being taken out now that they have done for the past 20 years...

Kashi, if the Executor sells the house and distributes the money, guess who MERP goes after? The Executor! hahahahaha. One of the "joys" of being Executor is that if you screw up, you are liable.

pamz, most casinos have the ID tags that create records of spending and payouts, so the gov't will see what went there. Now if they wrote a check to pay off the car loan, that will show too. And the check to your credit card companies will show, and be considered a gift. The problem with cash is that you can't prove they spent any of it on themselves. Debit cards provide better tracking of their expenses. If you can't prove where the money went, Medicaid will simply reject the application. This happens a LOT.

Yes Pam, this is in Tennessee...and I actually think that the State, Medicaid should be paid through the proceeds of this property. It certainly would be a 'drop in the bucket' for all those 30 plus years my Aunt was cared for in a group home for the mentally ill. But the taxpayers paid for all this care. I am not the Executor of the Will so can't really find out a whole lot as my cousin, who is the executor, doesn't relay information to the rest of the family.

Kashi is in Tennesee. They recover actively. I have seen posts where the property is listed and sold, only to stop cold at the closing. Then the seller not only loses the house, they have to pay the buyer back for all the expenses. Not a pretty picture.

I worry about this too, and my folks have plenty to see them through.. I just got paranoid after reading so much on here and other sites! They live with us, and still take the same amount of cash out every month for casinos, spending etc. They also pay the electric and TV bill. That is the only bill they pay.. out of their checking. But they do pay the Costco trips, and give me cash for groceries and gas in my truck since I drive them everywhere. They paid off our credit cards when they moved in ( not alot) and daughters car when she bought a house. Are we in the crossfire if things go south? I hope not, but I still worry. Are we safer because it comes out of thier cash? How do I prove the casino spending...LOL How does anyone? I just keep my fingers crossed. I am on all their accounts, have been for 10 years or more.

Pam - actually based on what Kashi wrote, it can make total sense that the property did NOT have a Medicaid MERP claim or lien. If Kashi's aunt had been on a program for 20, 30, years then her application was before MERP was required to be done. Like for TX Medicaid if they were on it before March, 2006, no MERP. But any applications done after March, 2006 are.

probably just a small pool of recipients that fit this situation.
Kashi's family just lucked out.

Anti - when the Medicaid application is done, there will be financial details required to be turned in to accompany the application. Could be a full 5 years, could be 6 months. It will depend on just how your state does Medicaid. Medicaid is a state administered program under federal guidelines. For my mom in TX it was 3 years. & 6 months of banking plus insurance policies & real property details & details on all her income sources (actual awards letters type of thing).

What I think is being looked for is a "pattern of. Spending " that makes sense for the income and savings that they had for the past years. So if mom had 50K savings 5 years ago & got 1K a month income & has a home, it can make sense she could be down to impoverishment. But if she has been living with family & no paid caregivers and is now impoverished then they are going to look for gifting as there still should be plenty of assets for a spend down.

The gifting is basically a transfer penalty that is day based with the base line figure of whatever your state pays for daily room & board reinbusrement rate paid by Medicaid. There should be the formula used on your state medicaid website. Like for TX it's $145.00 r&b paid to the NH daily. So a 50K transfer would mean roughly 345 days that they are ineligible for Medicaid to pay for NH ALTHOUGH they are now qualified for Medicaid. 345 days is a long long time to have to private pay......

From this point on, you need to stop any gifting etc with moms $$. Go over the figures and if it's substantial, then I'd suggest you get the details and all legal and get mom& you to an elder law attorney. It will be $$ well spent.

Medicaid generally "looks at" any transaction over $400 in Illinois. (Got that number from the Admissions Director/Medicaid Coordinator in the nursing home where mom had her rehab. They will want a list of the last five years' transactions in every one of her accounts as well as a list of any assets she owned during that period. If you omit any, they WILL find them.

As I understand it, every area has a nursing home monthly cost number. Like, let's say the Chicago area is $8,000 a month. If they find $80,000 that they consider to be gifts, they will exclude ten months of her care.

I have no idea how they figure food and gas costs paid to you. I'd suspect that won't count though.

Don't feel bad that you didn't know. Most people don't.

Kashi, and babalou, my sister is in a group home. Medicaid will eventually find out and demand the full amount. It won't be pretty.

There are special rules that allow you to create a trust for a disabled child so that their care can be paid for. I would consult a trusts attorney before I assumed that this money is not subject to Medicaid claw back.

In addition, they may or may not 'look back' at cash gifts esp if they are small. Medicaid is so complicated. I had a Aunt who was mentally ill and resided in a group home for 30 plus years paid for by welfare....not sure what program paid it, but anyway, her parents (my grandparents) put the family property in this Aunt's name before they passed on. Now that this Aunt has died, the family gets to sell the property ($350,000 listed price) and keep the proceeds. I mean that's nice, but sure don't understand how that worked...seems to me the State should be reimbursed for all those years of care.

Hi. It sounds like you are about to panic. If you look over at the top right, your answers may be under Money and Legal. Good luck.